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Author Topic: SDDS Mark J. Marshall Film God Posts: 3188 From: New Castle, DE, USA Registered: Aug 2002 posted 11-07-2003 03:44 PM                    Michael, What should I adjust to get the stronger punch that my manager said was missing?  |  IP: Logged Michael Schaffer "Where is the Boardwalk Hotel?" Posts: 4143 From: Boston, MA Registered: Apr 2002 posted 11-07-2003 04:03 PM                        Hard to say from here. I have seen many, many, many, many, many, many, many SDDS units in the field which were simply inadequately installed and aligned because most technicians didn`t understand how to do it properly. Check if the red LEDs on top of the level display come on frequently during loud passages. Many installers simply pull up the band levers in the EQ to reach a "flat" response. Then the sum of all bands is higher than 0dB and drives the unit into hard digital clipping. That does not sound nice. How are your units hooked up to each other?  |  IP: Logged Alan Haigh Film Handler Posts: 45 From: Watford, UK Registered: Jul 2003 posted 11-07-2003 04:23 PM                    I think Scott's use of the word "demise" is a little strong. The last rumour I heard was that they were extending support for 2000s and for the original cameras for at least 10 more years. This along with John 1's list of films doesn't seem like demise to me. I do't know if they are making them still, as in rolling off a production line, but I think the 3000s are still for sale aren't they? Michael, hello by the way, when SDDS defaults to "one side" playback. It uses a mono mix of say RC, R and RS, which is on the "left" side. Also on this left side is an 8 bit code, renewed several times a second, which stores the levels of RC, R and RS. So if RC was silent (likely!) R was at full and RS was half level, you'd have 0,127,65 say. So you won't see RC jump up into mono as it's volume will stay at zero. This is why it's so hard to spot. If a system is installed in a 5,1 room, you'll never see 8 meters moving, as the meters show the actual CP output, not what's on film. As for sound quality. The maths/physics says 5 channel 4:1 DTS 8 channel 5:1 SDDS 5.1 channel 10:1 (ish) SRD But the algorithms used for compression make the differences smaller. Dolby is nothing short of miraculous that it sounds the way it does at 370kB/s or whatever (DTS 1.5Mb and SDDS 2.2 Mb) but it relys heavily on you having an "average" film soundtrack. eg you don't want to have, say piano music loud on the surrounds and reverberant drops of water at the front, for instance. Then you'd hear a big difference. But it's OK. They all are, really. Many other parts of the chain/room have bigger differences. Anyway, sorry to be so wildly off topic, but everyone else is officer. Alan  |  IP: Logged Dennis M Dow Jr Expert Film Handler Posts: 141 From: Bloomfield NJ USA Registered: Oct 2003 posted 11-07-2003 04:44 PM                       Mark, Which SDDS system are you using? is it the 2000? If so either the LEDs are low or the Equalization was not done properly. The 2000 uses its own eq as opposed to the dts which uses the processors eq  |  IP: Logged Brad Miller Administrator Posts: 17775 From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall) Registered: May 99 posted 11-07-2003 05:02 PM                     I hate to agree with Michael, but he is right on the nose with this. quote: Mark - If there is such a great detectable difference, there is something wrong with your SDDS decoder or it is set up the wrong way. Bruce - I doubt very much that you hear the difference. It sounds more like you think you hear something because you read about it. Really guys, you CANNOT compare different sound formats between different shows, different auditoriums or when the exact same B-chain is not used. It's all in your heads.  |  IP: Logged Per Hauberg Jedi Master Film Handler Posts: 883 From: Malling, Denmark Registered: Jul 2000 posted 11-07-2003 05:10 PM                        As mentioned in an other topic here, we've got a CinemaxX 8-screener in our neighbourhood (Aarhus city) 3 weeks ago. Situated 3 minutes walk from only other big (locally seen) multiplex, 9-screen BioCity, run by The Nordisk Film Co, this was obviuosly a war breaking out. Nordisk, who went to the classic solution few years ago, going from 5 THX-screens to one, all of a sudden has a block in their ads, telling about 9 THX-screens. The intruder's big weapon is to claim, they have the first SDDS-8 in Denmark at all. This is not true, as Nordisk Film installed this in their beautyful Copenhagen flagship Imperial, 6 or 7 years ago. Next smile comes from CinemaxX telling on their website, that with the SDDS-8 and their 5 screen channels, they are filling out the hole in the sound, left by Dolby and DTS /mainly because the CinemaxX as allways think "bigger is better" giving 60 feet screen with less than 20 feet distance from raw nr 1. Big trouble comes, when looking at the SDDS website: Only 4 releases in 2003 in SDDS-8, three of those out of business before opening of the CinemaxX, and the fourth they couldn't get, because the film (BB2) is distributed by Nordisk Film !! CinemaxX fills out the 'sound holes' with extra speakers, but without a single film to demonstrate their skills. Competition is a funny game. The BioCity has, according to the adds, best sound in town; CinemaxX the best sound in the country. What about it !? p.  |  IP: Logged John T. Hendrickson, Jr Jedi Master Film Handler Posts: 889 From: Freehold, NJ, USA Registered: Apr 2001 posted 11-07-2003 05:20 PM                     Michael Schaffer wrote: "John - you haven`t read any of the posts in this topic. Correct?" No Michael- incorrect. You have not answered my last question: Will SDDS be the first casualty or not? I was simply soliciting other people's opinion. Our supplier and our techs both told us to stay away from SDDS. I might add that this was the major consideration when we selected Dolby for the Count Basie Theatre restoration. So far, we have not been disappointed. I might add that we have DTS at the multiplex I work at and we are not disappointed with that either.  |  IP: Logged Brad Miller Administrator Posts: 17775 From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall) Registered: May 99 posted 11-07-2003 05:25 PM                     quote: Will SDDS be the first casualty or not? Absolutely. There is no reason for anyone to invest in new equipment for this format anymore. If you can find some equipment used and at a good price, I think SDDS tracks will continue to be made for some time and you could get your investment back, but the format is quickly dying.  |  IP: Logged Michael Schaffer "Where is the Boardwalk Hotel?" Posts: 4143 From: Boston, MA Registered: Apr 2002 posted 11-07-2003 09:33 PM                        I hate to disagree with you, Alan, especially since I know there are few people who know as much about SDDS as you do, but the 3000 at least actually does what I described. I know about the theory with the level code, but we have seen it many times when we had 5.1 SDDS prints with a bad P-track that every time it went into DCM, the LC became very active. This resulted in a very unpleasant "pumping" effect on the left side of the theatre. I even used to switch our 3000s into 6-channel to avoid this. I hate to agree with Brad, but he is right on the nose with this. quote: Really guys, you CANNOT compare different sound formats between different shows, different auditoriums or when the exact same B-chain is not used. It's all in your heads. Even when you compare the same program material directly one after the other on the same hardware setup, it takes much more than thinking one can hear a difference or liking this or that sound better to actually pinpoint the differences in tone color, balance, distortion etc.  |  IP: Logged John McConnel Expert Film Handler Posts: 118 From: Okmulgee, OK USA Registered: Nov 2003 posted 11-07-2003 11:43 PM                        Regarding SDDS' hanging around for very long, it appears that they're not getting support from the studios that Dolby Digital and DTS are getting. 100% of the prints that I've used have had both Dolby and DTS tracks. But not SDDS. A recent example of this is Paramount's THE FIGHTING TEMPTATIONS. I went to see it at the AMC 24 in Oklahoma City, which is Oklahoma's top-grossing theatre and asked the doorperson to direct me to where it was showing with digital sound. She told that it wasn't shown in digital, which took me by surprise. The theatre has only SDDS, while the movie has only Dolby and DTS digital tracks. They graciously gave me a refund, and I went to a different theatre. It made me wonder how much longer SDDS will stay, and also made me wonder how long AMC will operate the theatre with only SDDS digital equipment.  |  IP: Logged Aaron Sisemore Flaming Ribs beat Reeses Peanut Butter Cups any day! Posts: 3061 From: Rockwall TX USA Registered: Sep 1999 posted 11-08-2003 01:31 AM                     quote: The last rumour I heard was that they were extending support for 2000s and for the original cameras for at least 10 more years. For the UK, maybe. As far as the US goes, if you have a 2000, consider yourself screwed if it fails. I have ranted on Sony's ludicrous 'technical support' in this thread in the past. NOTHING has improved. SDDS= Sells Dolby and DTS Systems... /rant off -Aaron  |  IP: Logged Matt Zeiner Expert Film Handler Posts: 146 From: Windsor, CT USA Registered: Sep 2003 posted 11-08-2003 06:51 AM                     Aliasing and dither artifacts are clearly audible in all 3 formats (Dolby Digital worst of all) with a decent pair of headphones or studio monitors.  |  IP: Logged Nic Margherio Film Handler Posts: 91 From: St. Louis MO, USA Registered: Dec 1999 posted 11-08-2003 02:03 PM                     Sony and DTS should collaborate on a new sound format based on the XD-10 platform from DTS and Sony's DSD encoding. Admittedly, its probably "all in my head" as Brad has said, but to my ears (or head) DSD is audibly superior to any form of PCM, especially PCM compressed at 10:1.  |  IP: Logged Brad Miller Administrator Posts: 17775 From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall) Registered: May 99 posted 11-08-2003 02:06 PM                     Digital sound for cinema has been around for 10 years now. It's too late to bring in another format. Theaters as well as studios would not embrace it. Besides, theaters could be running uncompressed audio and it wouldn't matter with the choice of speaker systems, auditorium acoustics and *generally* poor calibration found in the average theater today.  |  IP: Logged Manny Knowles "What are these things and WHY are they BLUE???" Posts: 4247 From: Bloomington, IN, USA Registered: Feb 2002 posted 11-08-2003 05:07 PM                     ...also factor in the findings of psychoacoustic researchers and there isn't exactly a pressing need for zero compression. Ask around. Odds are pretty good that most viewers would be happy to see a movie presented in any of today's digital audio formats (including SDDS) and probably don't (or can't) perceive a difference between them. Depending on the movie and the analog mix, there are times when I have to watch for a splice to determine if I'm hearing analog or digital. I have never had the need or inclination to use headphones or monitors in a theatrical situation. I am curious as to why you were wearing the headphones and listening to SR-D with monitors? Was this a home-video situation?  |  IP: Logged

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