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Author Topic: Print Costs? Rick Long Jedi Master Film Handler Posts: 759 From: Toronto, Ontario, Canada Registered: Nov 1999 posted 06-11-2003 11:21 PM                     I agree with Greg, the cost to low-paid employee morale far outweighs the cost of replacing a print. I have heard of prices around 2K for replacement, but, as John points out, the costs could go higher, depending on circumstances. Still doesn't it really come down to 2 things; a matter of proper training, and the set-up of the equipment such that it reduces the likeleyhood of scratching a print? Have not the booth staff been trained in such a manner that checking threading is a matter or routine that one automatically does without thinking about it? Who of us, near the end of a long day, have not caught ourselves almost using the wrong roller-set on a platter (and hopefully catching it in time) before it could destroy or mar a print? Can't booth equipment design be modified so that this mistake cant be made nearly impossible? Given these two important factors to consider, is there any way an employee could be conclusevely charged with print damage, and forced to pay to replace same?  |  IP: Logged Frank Angel Film God Posts: 5305 From: Brooklyn NY USA Registered: Dec 1999 posted 06-12-2003 12:32 AM                        Scott, I think the insurance thing would be something the exhibitor would take out to protect only against acts-of-god, like a piece of equipment failing and causing damage; negligent print abuse certaintly wouldn't be covered. But I imagine there are very few insurance companies around that are knowledgeable in the specifics of booth operation that they would be offering that kind of coverage. But then given Stephen's post, at least in England, he was able to get personal coverage, something I never thought of. I think I would be OK with buying personal coverage if it weren't too expensive and if I could find a carrier this side of the pond, only because I run "this is the only copy" prints and even those 16mm camera reversal prints at lots of festivals, and those festival people are insane! It would be great knowing that if a few drive train gears strip in the projector and some footage comes out looking like shredded wheat, they won't take me out and shoot me. Or at least they have to let me live long enough to collect the insurance money for them! Frank  |  IP: Logged Bernard Tonks Jedi Master Film Handler Posts: 619 From: Cranleigh, Surrey, England Registered: Apr 2001 posted 06-12-2003 05:57 AM                     As an exhibitor from 1978-2002, I could only obtain £5,000. ($8,362USD) insurance cover for loss of film due to fire or theft including during transit. Film could not be insured whilst on the projectors. My Broker was a specialist in cinemas, so I assume it is general in the UK.  |  IP: Logged Stephen Furley Film God Posts: 3059 From: Coulsdon, Croydon, England Registered: May 2002 posted 06-12-2003 06:59 AM                     Bernard wrote: quote: Film could not be insured whilst on the projectors. Well, I managed to get cover for it. It's about five or six years since I gave it up, and I can't remember which company provided it, but I think I still have the paperwork somewhere, I'll try to find it when I've got some spare time. Obviously there were exclusions, but it did cover accidental damage during projection. Neither company nor broker were specialists in the field. If I couldn't get cover again in future it would be a real pain; I'd have to seriously consider whether I could do any projection work.  |  IP: Logged Leo Enticknap Film God Posts: 7474 From: Loma Linda, CA Registered: Jul 2000 posted 06-13-2003 03:11 AM                        quote: What really makes ne nervous is projecting original 16mm camera reversal material, if you damage that you've had it. That thought has occured to me, as we have more than a few of these elements and depositors usually demand videos. In the vast majority of cases we can't afford to have dupe negs and (film) viewing copies made, and for these elements our rule is very clear and simple: we will telecine them once and then never again unless they are subsequently duped to film or the video master is lost or damaged. Thank goodness we've never suffered any damage during this process but there's always an element of risk, if only a small one - a roller shaft breaking in the machine while it's running, for example. In the film archive world the insurance situation is that copies are insurable, but not originals. This is because dupes have a quantifiable cost and are thus a known risk, whereas originals are unique and thus irreplacable. You could get into arguments about the potential loss of commercial footage exploitation revenue to determine a risk value, but these are just that - arguments, and insurers tend not to want to have them. I presume that the same applies to labs when they run the camera negative of a multi-million dollar blockbuster through a printer (i.e. insurance companies won't go near them). I was once speaking to a lab manager who developed the first super 16 film to be shot in space. He said that the operator of the developing machine (who had to unload and thread up the element in total darkness) simply was not told what the can contained, in case he got nervous!  |  IP: Logged Howard Johnson Film Handler Posts: 87 From: Felpham , West Sussex, UK Registered: Jun 99 posted 06-13-2003 03:58 AM                     If you are nervous about running originals you wouldn't have liked working for British Movietone News in the 60s ! We ran the original camera 35mm negs as our rushes and also for dubbing commentary and music! We were careful but we didnt have any damage.  |  IP: Logged Bernard Tonks Jedi Master Film Handler Posts: 619 From: Cranleigh, Surrey, England Registered: Apr 2001 posted 06-13-2003 05:22 AM                     Much the same in my days with ITN News, 16mm reversal colour magnetic stripe stock was used. This would be edited then R&R dubbed with additional commentary etc. onto sep mag track, which later or even within minutes went out live on air. Very rarely was there time to time to telecine to VTR, unless there was an arranged studio package to be made with inserts. We often used to telecine rare material from Movietone & Pathe Newsreels, also the Imperial War Museum. Some stock was on nitrate, only 2,000' was allowed on the premises at one time. During telecine (Rank Cintel) two uniformed security personnel used to stand each side of the operator with fire extinguishers! Much to our relief nitrate was later banned completely. When I was one of the relief projectionists at the BFI Cinema City exhibition at Chalk Farm during 1970, we ran many rare prints including BBC 35mm features’ transmission prints on Kalee 20s. Stephen, I can understand your concern, and for an Individual doing occasional specialised projection, no doubt insurance cover for film damage on projectors is possible and the way to go.  |  IP: Logged

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