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Author Topic: Simplex Millenium - what do you think? Scott Norwood Film God Posts: 8146 From: Boston, MA. USA (1774.21 miles northeast of Dallas) Registered: Jun 99 posted 06-28-2003 10:33 AM                        Question on these projectors: should the gates be left open or closed at the end of the night? With Centurys and X-Ls, the springs seem to wear out faster if the gates are left open, so I've always left the gates closed and (with Simplex or RCA soundheads) the sound rollers open. I've only run a couple of shows on Simplex Milleniums (Millenia?), so I can't really comment in detail. They seem like decent machines and are essentially a turret version of the X-L with a redesigned gate and separate intermittent shoe. The pair that I have run has manual turrets which work fine. They didn't leak, either (they would have been installed about five years ago, I think). Agreed to all the complaints about the 5-Star soundheads. The Century design (C, SA, JJ) seems to be much more operator friendly, but both machines can put out a decent image and will run well for decades. I've never seen a turret-model Century, but apparently the current version uses the same turret as the Simplex model. I generally like the Highlight II console. It's huge and noisy, but the Christie SLC is even bigger (why?). The light output is very good with 2kw bulbs and we get great lamp life at the 6-plex where I work that uses them (they were installed about six years ago). Bulb changes are easy and fast and the lamphouse is very roomy inside. My only real complaint is that (like the Super Lume-X), the alignment controls are designed to make fine adjustments difficult. I much prefer the screw-type adjustments on Christie or Cinemeccanica lamphouses. Cleaning out that fan intake thing is an annoying chore, but that's a once-a-year activity and isn't really a big deal. If I were a theatre owner, I wouldn't hesitate to buy any of this equipment. It's well designed and will last for decades and it also has the advantage that many operators are already familiar with it (at least in the US, where Century and Simplex are by far the most popular machines).  |  IP: Logged Gordon McLeod Film God Posts: 9532 From: Toronto Ontario Canada Registered: Jun 99 posted 06-28-2003 12:06 PM                     On the single lens xl's and centurys I take the trap door out at night and then close the mechanism that way the closure spring stays relaxed overnight as does the tension spring  |  IP: Logged Jean-Michel Grin Expert Film Handler Posts: 222 From: Geneva & Lausanne, Switzerland Registered: Jul 2002 posted 06-28-2003 12:22 PM                        Gentlemens, Personally I like simplex mechanisms, they are easy to service, but it got a lot of improvements that make impossible to know really witch part should be ordened. More, simplex mechanism have an oil leak that atract dirt and dust. the sound presure pad where is in contact with the film is a bad idea and a hard deal for the projectionist who need to clean them after each show. I dislike the Highlight console. I got 6 o them in a multiplex and is impossible to achieve a good light output on screen. In scope format the corners apears alway dark The ceramic fork who suport the xenon lamp give me a lot of troubles.. I rather prefer the Super Highlight 2: It's prettty fair to adjust the xenon, the light output is great an the mechanism look like the super 80 lamphouse. But Strong will no more in the future making this console (again) Someone of You told me that se techical support is great Sorry gentlemens, I suppose that in US the service is fine, but in Europe and in Switzerland is a nightmare... I've ordened spares parts to my local dealer two monts ago and he told me that Strong din't send nothing... For all this reasons my company has switched to Cinemeccanica...  |  IP: Logged Steve Guttag We forgot the crackers Gromit!!! Posts: 12814 From: Annapolis, MD Registered: Dec 1999 posted 06-28-2003 01:31 PM                     Most of the Simplexes I sell and service are the PR-1014 single lens systems. We do have a few Milleniums and a few PR-1060s out there though. I have no problem with the mechanism proper. For the Mellinium, the gate closer, is the ORC contraption they came up with for the Century, whilst it was on ORC's watch. I never liked it there and I still am not a fan of it. The gate runners and trap bands still do the job though. The intermittent shoe again is from the Century and turned upside down...if I wanted a Century, I'd have ordred a Century..I like the fact that the Simplex has the intermittent shoe attached to the gate. If I wanted it separate, I would have taken more of the Christie P-35 approach on how it closed and I would have stuck with the Simplex shoe design. Though there are certainly flaws in the PR-1060 gate design (don't close the turret on the opened gate)...I can get them dialed in to near perfection so I actually like them. I don't like how the dynamics changed when the upper sprocket moved up and the loss of the upper film-stripper. I note that Strong has addressed both of the above issues with the Apogee. I don't like lens turrets and general and have found none in particular that I like. All seem to have some merits and some failures. I can't argue that for the typical 2-lens FLAT/SCOPE theatre that they make sense. I'll take a Strong turret as much as any but to expect them to hold position over any length of time is wishful. Oil seeps never really bothered me so all the whining about leaky projectors fall on deaf ears for me. I'd gladly take the seal off the intermittent cam in order to loose the "brake" style framing knob...it is too damn tight. Then again, you all got what you want. One one gets the main drive seal right...the rest of the oil issues are just seeps, not streams of oil...it just isn't an issue, for me at least. As to the soundhead...I like the Simplex "4-star" soundheads from SH-1000 onwards though prefer the SH-1007 and up. I agree the rubber roller thing is long overdue for a change...rework the drum pinch roller to the edge of the film is the contact area and things would be wonderful...even on the 5-star. I like gears over belts and again Strong has addressed that with the Apogee Overall, the Mellenium is a fine projector that can provide decades of good service life and excellent presentations. I would not hesitate putting yet more in. I think Strong has done an EXCELLENT job of listening to its customers with the work on the Apogee. At a time when film's future is in question Strong has come up with a new machine that seems to take the best from what the industry has to offer. I applaud their efforts...if they come out with a single lens version, I'll be even happier! As to other manufacturers...EVERYONE has their ups and downs...no one has a lock on good (or bad) mechanisms. I would put a Simplex up there with the best and Mark...only a fool would put in an Ernemann over a Simplex or just about any other projector...now THAT is a piece of expensive junk. Steve  |  IP: Logged Mark Gulbrandsen Resident Trollmaster Posts: 16657 From: Music City Registered: Jun 99 posted 06-28-2003 04:43 PM                     Steve, While I didn't install the Ernemanns here and I couldn't tell you who did, there are close to 20 of them in service, plus Sundance owns a number of them set up for portable use that give them no trouble at all. We have so little trouble with any of them that I didn't even know there were any here till I visited the sites that had them on routine service calls over the last year. Some have been in service for close to nine years now, and they have yet to comsume any more than one new set of gate bands and a set of belts per machine. Thats REALLY good service IMHO, and they are dead steady as well. I believe Gord has also had very good luck with them. To me the downsides are the turrett and the dead idler sprocket. Thats all I can thnk of. They don't eat up belts, they don't leak, they run VERY clean with no visible film dust after many runs of a print, and I rarely hear from their owners about them, except for oil they order. The Egyptian Theatre in Ogden, UT has a 16/35 Ernemann that given them zero trouble over a 6 year period of running old and classic films,in both 16 and 35mm formats.... plus spill over from Sundance. Interestingly, in Logan UT there are 8 Ernemanns, 8 DP-70, and about 24 other types of projectors, but mainly Simplex. We never hear from the Ernemann or DP-70 houses in general and I can't recall a projector problem in either 8 plex with the german machines. The calls we get from those locations are always sound, automation, or lamphouse related. quote: "only a fool would put in an Ernemann over a Simplex or just about any other projector...now THAT is a piece of expensive junk." As for your child like comments, . I thought you were above that....perhaps not, or perhaps you just don't have many of them running around your area to make a good judgement call on them...... If you do and you've had bad luck with them, then I can understand and weigh your opinion in next time someone out here is interested in them. At this point though your opinion isn't going to weigh much as the Ernemanns in this area are ALOT less grief from a service aspect than most of the Simplex's, Centurys, and certainly Christies.... BTW: the Ernemann is also priced in there with the Simplex Milennium and the Kinoton equivelents. Mark  |  IP: Logged John Walsh Film God Posts: 2490 From: Connecticut, USA, Earth, Milky Way Registered: Oct 1999 posted 06-28-2003 05:40 PM                     I generally also like the Milleniums ... I like the seperate pad roller for the intermittent; without it, there's too much fussing to keep the film in the trap by itself... I like the rack-pinion aperture drive; it seem pretty solid ... agree that the full-width rubber sound roller should go; in fact, I feel there's too many didly little parts to that assembly ... I wish the gate would come out for cleaning... the rear cover for the sound flywheel always seems to be just a little to "short" and you have to move the flywheel back on the shaft a little to not scrape the inside.. Believe me, Mark ... Steve is being factual, not childish, about Ernemanns (at least the Ernemann 15.) He takes care of 11 for our chain, and I constantly deal with another 60 or so. None are over three years old. At two locations in Florida (about 30 machines) there were many turret problems (aperture shadows) after the initial install. So I sent a different guy I know and trust (F.D.) to totally check, service and repair all turret problem, then to file apertures. In less than one year, more than half will no longer line up (aperture shadows again.) We simply can no longer afford to maintain that part of the projector. The aperture "S" spring design is a "not funny" joke; we change them constantly. Big Sky wisely has designed a replacement assembly (a rack-pinion design, I think.) You know that larger feed-holdback sprocket drive belt? We keep 5-6 on hand at all theaters because several will break without warning. Belt tensioners break often, there are weird vibrating harmonics (you can feel them with your hand resting on the casting) that mess up the SR-D reading. They have a 1/2" thick nylon "plate" on the top of the casting that you are supposed to screw your DTS; SDDS; reader bracket or film cleaner; roller arm etc. into. Well, the threads in it strip pretty easily; there's no hole through the casting, so you have to get the EXACT right bolt length. God, I have to stop now as I feel a really bad rant comming on..... Although of course, I'm glad you have had good luck with them .....  |  IP: Logged Steve Guttag We forgot the crackers Gromit!!! Posts: 12814 From: Annapolis, MD Registered: Dec 1999 posted 06-28-2003 06:18 PM                     Mark, it isn't childish...the Ernemann is a hunk of junk...they do leak, their picture is mediocre, at best. The tension bands crumple up in less than a couple months time in a typical mall theatre. Aperture shadows are huge due to the velvet bands that start to unravel, leaving fuzz in the aperture (there better not be the slightest burr on them plates or the bands come a drifting in. The belt design is a joke with an unsupported idler roller. There IS NO DOCUMENTATION on the guts of the projector so good luck working on them. Ever priced out the stupid Dolby LED for when it fades...they are over $600 list (just for the LED on an aluminum plated with potting to prevent the LED leads from shorting out). Even discounted you are going to pay a fortune from them (Neumade or Big Sky). Their analog sound is by "Laser"...what another piece of crap...poor light, undependable, and can't get a zero phase difference. And if you get it all right...wait a month and the front lens element might fall out. So, when you need to change one out due to failure...the fine folks at Ernemann decided to use soft alumninum on the tubes and groove them so a special tool could adjust them...big problem the lens tubes are now burred and won't slide out anymore. Lateral stability? Not too much...they went with some sort of glass blocks that are spring loaded (one set above and one set below the aperture)...don't think they wear? Think again...never seen a stable picture from any gate that uses this sort of lateral position (and I hope the Apogee looses its blocks as well prior to release). Pad rollers? You betcha...and by virture of opening and closing them, the knobs that hold them on come unscrewed. The Sprockets...registered by the....outboard screw....only the friction of the outboard screw are the feed sprockets held to their shaft...no indexing, no screw going though the shaft, nothing..screw loosens, sprocket free wheels. The little hand dowser plate is nifty...unless you close it too far and it causes the shutter to crash into the frame. The turret is such a joke that I can't believe they even offer it with the projector...what do they use to clamp the lenses in with? M2 screws? Or how about the turrets that just stop mid rotation? They could stop because the lenses were adjusted to align to the screen thus causing the lens holder to "bonk" the stop switches. But that isn't even necessary...sometimes they just don't rotate all of the way. Mark, a friend of mine wants to write a book called 1000 reasons not to buy an Ernemann. If you like the Ernemann so much...I'll bet that John Walsh here will trade you even, Ernemann for Mellenium. Could they be made to work much better? Sure, but what projector can't? As I have seen them...I wouldn't touch them with a 10-meter pole. Steve PS: If you DO have an exploded view of the gear box with part numbers, please post it in the manuals section...I'm sure the world would love to see it.  |  IP: Logged Gordon McLeod Film God Posts: 9532 From: Toronto Ontario Canada Registered: Jun 99 posted 06-28-2003 06:26 PM                     My experience with teh ernamann 15 has been pretty good belts have not been an issue the lasers were in the beginning The bands last about a year the image is rock stable Almost all are in grind theatres and they just run  |  IP: Logged John T. Hendrickson, Jr Jedi Master Film Handler Posts: 889 From: Freehold, NJ, USA Registered: Apr 2001 posted 06-29-2003 09:45 AM                     "I've never felt that the little amount of oil in an X-L should go as long as six months, especially on older machines where there is even less oil. If it were a pint it might last that long, but the 6 to 8 ounces of oil in a Simplex should be changed monthly if running on platters" Marc- I have been told by our tech service that changing the oil on the Milleniums every six months is more that adequate. These machines were manufactured in the fall of 99 and put into service in February of 2000. Quite frankly, we didn't buy these projectors with the idea that I would have to change out the oil every month! That is entirely too labor intensive and after all, we are running a business. I do all the regular maintenance at the proper times. My post simply reported the problems I have experienced with the milleniums. We chose them based on our previous experiences with Strong equipment, which had been good. Dave wrote: "I don't understand the problem with getting switchers exchanged. Strong will cross ship, and usually gets one out the same day. If you want to pay for fast delivery, you should have a replacement the day after ordering." Not so in my experience! The first time it happened we waited two days to get it with our dealer screaming at them. The second time was even worse, during the First Lord of the Rings, when the supply went out in one of our 4K houses. Called Strong, and they didn't even have them in stock!!! We said, "What about a 2-3K? We'll modify the collett and run a fresh 3K bulb flat out, since this was our second largest theater and it was dark during the holidays." Guess what?? No 2-3K's in stock either! Finally, they pulled one out of a show demo. Took three days to get it. I modified it and we got by with less than stellar light for nearly two weeks until we got the 4K replacement. During the three days that house was dark, we had to modify the schedule and bump prints all over the place. It casued a lot of greif, and we lost money, too. "The Millenium really shouldn't leak oil. Something is wrong if it does." No fooling! Of course they shouldn't, and, yes, something is wrong. We have to buy and install oil seal kits. That costs money, too. I have one on hand now, but I'll be damned if I'll order three more before I see if that solves the problem.  |  IP: Logged Mark Gulbrandsen Resident Trollmaster Posts: 16657 From: Music City Registered: Jun 99 posted 06-29-2003 11:37 AM                     John, Assumming that your place is a grind house then..... The big thng I see here is that IF you went six months before your very first time around, the machines are more than likely ruined. New projectors should have the oil changed at least several times the first month of operation....say 20 hours, then 60 hours, then at 100 hours and then every month after than in a grind operation. There are gobs of particles, metal, fibre, and others that are generated during break in. Its the mixing of these particles with the oil that causes the oil to break down. The more particles, the faster the oil heads south. Take some of that 6 month old oil to a lab and get it analyzed!! After you get the results back you'll more than likely change it every month. If it were synthetic it would probably last those six months without breaking down, but it would also be full of metal particles, and very dirty due to the lack of a proper oil filter in the Simplex...remember....it is really not anything more than a simple strainer. If you have your machines properly set up for draining the oil out its a 15 min operation at best. Do one or two a day, keep a log and it'll just become part of yours, or whom ever operates the booth routine. Of course you're in buisness to make money and so on....well, however feeding in expensive parts to your machines is going to cost alot of money and its quite probable that frequent oil changes will prolong the life of the mechanism alot. Oil is cheaper than parts replacement, down time, and the labor for someone to come and do the repairs, especially cheap if you buy oil in 5 gallon cans. Also, if your X-L's were not set up for quick oil draining then you should complain to your dealer about that, or spend the 5 bucks per machine that it costs to buy the proper fittings for quick drain out. As far as seals going bad, be sure that your belts are not rubbing and chafing on the sides of the projector drive pulley. If this happens there is alot of dusty like belt compound that is generated and this will destroy the seals in short time. When it mixes with the oil that starts seeping out it forms a nice cutting compound and also destroys the pulleys. It wears out the pulleys, seal, and the place on the pulley where the seal rides. It also works its way into the outer main drive bearing and then it too will fail...... I find this frequently in chains that don't perform normal P.M.. Proper alignment of the projector to the soundhead usually allows for the belt and film to run correctly. If you find that the belt is genrating black stuff then careful inspection of both of the projector drive pulleys for wear and possible replacement is in order, as well as replacement of all normal seal parts is in order. Keep an eye on them closely in the future and catch it before it gets bad. Also, don't just replace the seal. It will most likely never line up exactly where the original seal lip rode on the pulley shaft...ya have to replace the pulley too. Mark  |  IP: Logged Gordon McLeod Film God Posts: 9532 From: Toronto Ontario Canada Registered: Jun 99 posted 06-29-2003 02:03 PM                     I half agree with mark When brand new the oil should be changed at 50-60 hours (in a grind house that is one week) Then again at about 100 hours (two weeks) then after that ever 1000 hours should be okay or every 2-3 months in a grind house The original oil is a Texaco Capella SAE10 non detergent and it is a very robust oil and withstands high temperatures well  |  IP: Logged Michael Schaffer "Where is the Boardwalk Hotel?" Posts: 4143 From: Boston, MA Registered: Apr 2002 posted 06-29-2003 02:29 PM                        Mark, Steve, you are both right. The Ernemann used to be a pretty good machine, but in the last years the management has changed, they have become incorporated into a bigger concern, and since then, the quality control has plummeted.  |  IP: Logged Mark Gulbrandsen Resident Trollmaster Posts: 16657 From: Music City Registered: Jun 99 posted 06-29-2003 03:30 PM                     Michael, I would asume then that the Ernamanns out here being about 10 years old on average were from what you would call "the old management". Gord, After 1000 hours the oil in an X-L would be pretty dirty!! The oil Strong sells today is not Texaco Capella as you mentioned, it is straight mineral oil, (not the kind from the drug store) of about 9 weight and is available in 55 gallon drums for on the very cheap side. There are also NO additives mixed in with it at all. I can't remember what its wax content was...will have to see if we kept the report or not. With Strong wanting 15.00 a quart now we will probably get a 55 gallon drum of something a bit higher quality and bottle it ourselves. I seem to remember that both Shell and Texaco no longer make Capella, or that they don't make it in the weight needed....... Again, I'd have to check again on that. Mark  |  IP: Logged Michael Schaffer "Where is the Boardwalk Hotel?" Posts: 4143 From: Boston, MA Registered: Apr 2002 posted 06-29-2003 05:21 PM                        Also, they downcheaped the projectors a lot in an effort to compete with Kinoton, which is diminating the German market, by being far cheaper.  |  IP: Logged Steve Guttag We forgot the crackers Gromit!!! Posts: 12814 From: Annapolis, MD Registered: Dec 1999 posted 06-29-2003 05:37 PM                     Oh for the German Market...I'd take a Kinoton PK-60D, FP-30D or FP-50D over anything Ernemann ever thought of making...by nature, the FP-30D is more my style though. Steve  |  IP: Logged

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