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This topic comprises 5 pages: 1  2  3  4  5 
 
Author Topic: Thx certification
Michael Cunningham
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 186
From: Anchorage, AK
Registered: Nov 1999


 - posted 07-08-2003 11:25 AM      Profile for Michael Cunningham   Email Michael Cunningham   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
The problem with expecting that people will rely on the THX logo to differentiate quality theatres is that, for the most part, the movie-going public has no idea what THX is! It's hard for me to believe that people chose a THX theatre because of its quality when they come out and tell the ushers things like "The THX isn't turned on." or ask questions like "Is this movie playing in Dolby Digital or THX?" Unless people have at least a basic understanding of what the logo means, it's hard to see how the logo could truly be a customer draw.

- Mike

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Gordon McLeod
Film God

Posts: 9532
From: Toronto Ontario Canada
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 07-08-2003 11:33 AM      Profile for Gordon McLeod   Email Gordon McLeod   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
The theatre pays the engineer for recertification testing not THX so I doubt that claim of toolittle time and 200.00
Tap paid a fixed amount for TAP alignments but it wasn't a whole recert that was done then anyway
I normally budget 5-6 hours per auditorium for a complete recert

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Steve Guttag
We forgot the crackers Gromit!!!

Posts: 12814
From: Annapolis, MD
Registered: Dec 1999


 - posted 07-08-2003 07:24 PM      Profile for Steve Guttag   Email Steve Guttag   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Manny,

For analog crossovers...there aren't many that will compare to the RANE stuff as such that is what I recommend. Rather than looking at the knobs in front as a detraction...think of them as a GREAT help in getting the crossover settings (including gain and LF delay) just right while looking at your analyzer.

As for knob fiddling...that is easy...just install security covers over them.

Security covers

For the AC22B or the AC23B...the SF1 from Middle Atlantic does just fine. You can hold it on with normal rack screws or go to a more tamper resistant screw...I have NEVER had anyone remove the cover even with just standard rack screws.

As to THX...check out the latest Film Journal...the company I work for (Cardinal Sound & Motion Picture Systems, Inc.) is involved with both of the THX featured articles...the Historic Senator Theatre in Baltimore Senator Theatre and the AFI/Silver theatre AFI/Silver Theatre

Steve

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Christopher Seo
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 530
From: Los Angeles, CA
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 07-09-2003 01:12 AM      Profile for Christopher Seo   Email Christopher Seo   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I think Scott is right on the money about how marketing and engineering are mutually dependent. You can build the best cinemas around, but you have to let the public know. Certainly, they may subconsciously notice on their own whether presentation is excellent or poor, but people don't necessarily act rationally on that data ("I have a subconscious feeling theatre X is superior, therefore I will always go there..."). Good marketing will convince them consciously of what they know subconsciously.

The average public's priorities are not our own, either. Many of them seem to choose theatres based primarily on location and distance, which is of course understandable. But strong marketing could help overcome such a tendency to head to the nearest multiplex, in a sort of delayed-reward scenario.

I have no experience in marketing, but I've always imagined that the best sort of marketing is that which is informed by strong technical knowledge. "State-of-the-art" is one term which is bandied about far too often by people who obviously have no idea of what is state of the art. As an idealist, I think that a campaign which assumed the public's intelligence, rather than their susceptibility to clichés, could successfully differentiate itself from the pack. Instead of relying on simple Pavlovian brand-name recognition, explain clearly, elegantly, and creatively what you have, what it does, and why it's so great. Brand-name recognition is very superficial; recognizing quality itself is much more profound. If necessary, a theatre chain could create a brand name of its own to identify its best screens and avoid confusion and genericalness.

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Manny Knowles
"What are these things and WHY are they BLUE???"

Posts: 4247
From: Bloomington, IN, USA
Registered: Feb 2002


 - posted 07-09-2003 03:36 AM      Profile for Manny Knowles   Email Manny Knowles   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Steve -- Thanks for showing me the panel covers. I'm sold on the Rane crossovers.

Back to THX -- I'll agree that many people have no idea what THX is. As a marketing tool, THX itself could use a little more marketing. Until the general public understands what THX is (i.e. it isn't a sound format) then either Dolby Digital or DTS will seem to be sufficient.

I have verified what my friend was getting for THX recert's and it was $250.00 per screen. That's not a whole lot, considering how far away some of those screens are.

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Lakshman Thodla
Film Handler

Posts: 8
From: Andhra pradesh, India
Registered: Apr 2002


 - posted 07-09-2003 03:38 AM      Profile for Lakshman Thodla   Email Lakshman Thodla   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
hi,
i just returned from a visit to a multiplex in another city(INOX PUNE)
and it has 4 screens and one is THX certified.
all the auditoriums have similar design and seating and
projection .
sound was cp 650 from dolby with EX enabled in all screens .
i noticed a very small difference in the THX screen that
the sound was very live and lifelike and had a natural
tone to it .
while other audiotriums were very good and achieved
almost 95 % of the sound of the THX screen the
as the equipment was same.

could this be due to recording quality of the film rather than sound system

I also had my first IMAX experience and it was out of the world and th sound had so much headroom and dynamic range as they had 12kw of power THE Lion King was great never heard anything like that before.
lakshman

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Gordon McLeod
Film God

Posts: 9532
From: Toronto Ontario Canada
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 07-09-2003 12:10 PM      Profile for Gordon McLeod   Email Gordon McLeod   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Manny said "I have verified what my friend was getting for THX recert's and it was $250.00 per screen. That's not a whole lot, considering how far away some of those screens are."
Who was paying him I wouldn't touch it at that price

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Scott Jentsch
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1061
From: New Berlin, WI, USA
Registered: Apr 2003


 - posted 07-10-2003 12:25 PM      Profile for Scott Jentsch   Author's Homepage   Email Scott Jentsch   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Christopher Seo wrote:
quote:
Instead of relying on simple Pavlovian brand-name recognition, explain clearly, elegantly, and creatively what you have, what it does, and why it's so great. Brand-name recognition is very superficial; recognizing quality itself is much more profound.
Your entire message hit it right on the money, Christopher.

To do some match, I'll put numbers out of the air. Please feel free to insert your own...

On a day where 10 screens sell 150 seats each for four shows on each screen, that equals 6,000 people that are a captive audience for a theater to communicate its marketing messages to during their 3 hour visit.

In the Milwaukee area, theaters do not take advantage of that time to communicate what makes their theater better than their competitors. It may be because there is only one other chain besides Marcus, so none is needed.

It is definitely a lost opportunity if a theater does not take the time to educate and inform their customers as to why they made the right choice about where to see the movie they came to see.

In particular, any THX theater that has patrons coming up on a regular basis asking uneducated questions about THX (is the THX on?) means that it has not taken the time to educate its customers about the investment it has made to make their movie-going experience the best it can be.

THX has an informative web site, they produce posters for display that describe THX, and I believe there are also flyers that can be placed on the box office and/or concession stands. Finally, they have a THX trailer which is usually pretty impressive and absolutely hard to miss.

In The BigScreen Cinema Guide, the THX logo is clickable to an explanation of THX:

http://www.bigscreen.com/Help.php?id=8

I probably need to revisit that page and bring it up to date, since it's been a while since I wrote it, but the point is that we're trying to educate our readers about how to get the best movie presentations, and the THX logo is currently the best way to easily identify what should be first-class presentations.

One of the intents we have with our Theater InfoPages is to detail what each theater has to offer their customers. At one time, we were listing detailed information about the equipment in each screen, the size of the screen, seating capacities, etc. We've been removing that information as we update those pages, as the theaters are completely uninterested in keeping it up to date.

Here are two examples of InfoPages that attempt to achieve these goals:

Hartford Theatres InfoPage
Star Cinema Johnson Creek InfoPage

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Martin Brooks
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 900
From: Forest Hills, NY, USA
Registered: May 2002


 - posted 07-11-2003 04:46 PM      Profile for Martin Brooks   Author's Homepage   Email Martin Brooks   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
One of the problems with THX is that in many areas, even theaters that were THX certified never advertised in the newspapers that they were such. This isn't a problem in L.A. or San Francisco, but it's definitely a problem in New York.

Also, there should have been more consistency between the sound of theaters that were certified. In NYC, the Loews Village 7 screen #3 and the Clearview Chelsea Cinemas screens #6 and #7 were once certified THX, but they actually weren't very good, so even consumers who knew what THX was would have been baffled (so to speak).

The UA Union Square 14 does (or did) have a poster in the lobby indicating they were THX certified (screens #3 and #8). And there were plaques outside the Loews Lincoln Square #1 ("the Loews") and the Loews Orpheum 7, screen #7.

However, the THX web site no longer lists a single Manhattan theater, so they all must have given up certification. IMHO, THX certification should include the mandate that certified theaters must include in newspaper advertising and on the marquee and box office, exactly which theaters are playing a film in THX. I think that would also set up more of a competitive situation where other theaters might feel the pressure to upgrade their sound systems.

IMO, the other factor working against THX is that the entire industry is now geared towards opening weekend and perhaps the first two weeks of a run. In that scenario, it's almost impossible to get into many films anyway since they sell-out and therefore, there's no competitive advantage to having THX.

And while in the days of 70mm, theatres playing 70mm prints did do much better boxoffice than those that didn't (I think I posted an old Variety article about this once), my feeling is that most of the public really doesn't understand presentation quality and will put up with almost anything. I have been at presentations in which sound channels were missing and I was the only one complaining.

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Michael Schaffer
"Where is the
Boardwalk Hotel?"

Posts: 4143
From: Boston, MA
Registered: Apr 2002


 - posted 07-13-2003 05:25 AM      Profile for Michael Schaffer   Author's Homepage   Email Michael Schaffer   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
All the big exhibitor chains in Germany cancelled THX during the last 2 years or so. They actually messed up the installation in the Sony Center so bad that we had to start over and realign all the screens. That didn`t make the management exactly happy.

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Tom Petrov
Five Guys Lover

Posts: 1121
From: El Paso, TX
Registered: Jan 2003


 - posted 07-13-2003 12:34 PM      Profile for Tom Petrov     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
At a theater I used to work at before they closed it, we had three THX theaters that were once but were no longer certified. Only us projectionist knew this and a handful of the staff members. The difference between the THX cinemas and the non THX cinmas were remarkable. There was no lobby sound entering the auditorium, during the silent scenes you could not hear the HVAC nor could you hear the doors of the theater open or close. All the walls were padded and this was a non statium seating theater. What ever seat you sat in the theater was angle slightly towards the center of the screen. I sat in a stadium seating theater last night and I sat near the aisle and was pointed toward the exit sign next to the screen. This would never happen in the old THX certified cinemas.

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John Pytlak
Film God

Posts: 9987
From: Rochester, NY 14650-1922
Registered: Jan 2000


 - posted 07-14-2003 01:53 PM      Profile for John Pytlak   Author's Homepage   Email John Pytlak   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
There are laws, and those who break them --- get caught, and you get fined or go to jail.

There are SMPTE Standards and THX Specifications, and those who ignore them --- you may not "get caught", but as THX used to say "The Audience is Listening", and may decide to take their business elsewhere when presentation quality is poor.

It's not the logo on the screen, it's the QUALITY of the presentation that counts. The logo is a useful marketing tool, but you better deliver the quality it is supposed to stand for.

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Tim Reed
Better Projection Pays

Posts: 5246
From: Northampton, PA
Registered: Sep 1999


 - posted 07-14-2003 06:59 PM      Profile for Tim Reed   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
This logo used to mean something...

 -

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Kevin Wale
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 167
From: Guymon, OK USA
Registered: Aug 2003


 - posted 12-09-2003 12:30 PM      Profile for Kevin Wale   Email Kevin Wale   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I'd like to revive this thread for a bit if anyone is interested in continuing the discussion.

Are the recert fees the same as the initial fees?

Would it maybe be worth the expense if you were building a theatre from the ground up to have the optimum THX equipment(thinking of the THX crossovers here) installed and get the certification as part of the start up costs and then not recert? (...if you have quality technitians doing all your p.m.s of course.)

On the idea of using the premovie time(something I have been thinking of for some time now that might make those digital ads worth it.) Is it legal to even say the THX name as a reference point? By saying something like... "Xbrand theatre was built to stringent standards equalling that of THX..." I know I've seen Pepsi commercials talking about how people prefer Pepsi to Coke. Maybe there is a way to spread the quality word which would both make people understand what THX really is and understand that you can be as good as THX without it. I find people aren't stupid. They may not know why the prefer something over another technially(most people prefer scope even though they don't know that it is because of it's more efficient light usage.) A little education can go a long way.

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Daryl C. W. O'Shea
Film God

Posts: 3977
From: Midland Ontario Canada (where Panavision & IMAX lenses come from)
Registered: Jun 2002


 - posted 12-09-2003 12:37 PM      Profile for Daryl C. W. O'Shea   Author's Homepage   Email Daryl C. W. O'Shea   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
No way. If you want to build to or in excess of THX specs, great. You should do that anyway.

But if you want to claim to be just as good by directly referring to 'THX' you should really prove it and pay for the certification and re-certs.

10 years down the road when your theatre is still claiming to be 'just like THX' when in reality it has been neglected and now sucks, only helps to weaken an already weakening program.

Your Pepsi over Coke argument isn't even a good example. There's a big difference between "people like THX certified theatres over non-compliant theatres" and "we're just like THX".

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