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Author Topic: Film-Guard: end results William Hooper Phenomenal Film Handler Posts: 1879 From: Mobile, AL USA Registered: Jun 99 posted 09-01-2003 02:06 AM                        I've seen two different types of perf repair tapes on prints, one is like paper & seems more fragile.  |  IP: Logged Leo Enticknap Film God Posts: 7474 From: Loma Linda, CA Registered: Jul 2000 posted 09-01-2003 02:29 AM                        I have repeatedly found that if you apply FG manually and in the thickness needed to effectively 'fill in' base scratches and lubricate a shrunk and/or buckled print to help it through a projector or telecine mechanism, this will eventually dissolve tape joins. I would replace all tape joins with cement on such an element if it is going to be used for regular projection.  |  IP: Logged Jeff Klump Film Handler Posts: 22 From: Austin, Texas, USA Registered: Aug 2003 posted 09-01-2003 03:50 AM                    I'm a giant fan of FG. The other projectionists I work with think I abuse it. I don't think you can ever find enough uses for it. Here is a question for all of you out there, do you know the best way to clean a print after over 3 months of use? I have two prints right now in fact (Nemo and Italian Job) that need cleaned up bad. I've run them through our dry media Kelmar cleaners at least three times a piece and still nothing. Even after film guard applications. At this point is the print just going to remain semi-dirty? The reason I'm asking is because I've never had a print longer than 4 months. Also on another note; does anyone practice coating prints with FG their first run to ensure quality throughout their life? I was thinking of starting this if it works.  |  IP: Logged Steve Guttag We forgot the crackers Gromit!!! Posts: 12814 From: Annapolis, MD Registered: Dec 1999 posted 09-01-2003 09:19 AM                     The best way to treat a film is starting with the first show and then every show thereafter. That is, soak the pads with FG...treat the film on the first show...reuse the pads for an entire week on that film, every show. The next week, repeat the process (kinda like it says in the instructions)...not only will the print not age...you will find that your digital systems start working BETTER as you continue to use it. Also, focus stability is improved and the film becomes more impervious to heat related damages. Steve  |  IP: Logged Brad Miller Administrator Posts: 17775 From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall) Registered: May 99 posted 09-01-2003 03:40 PM                     Jeff, 3 times on an old dirty print may not be enough. Also, did you use freshly saturated pads on all 3 of those runs? The key here is to remember that on the pass with fresh media and FG, you are NOT cleaning the film. You are only coating and lubricating. It is the subsequent passes through those same pads (not resaturated) that starts pulling off the dirt. Fire up your test again, but this time leave the cleaner on that print and rewind and reuse those same pads every show for a solid week. You will see a dramatic difference 7 days from now. Just remember, don't keep reapplying FG to the pads. It is most effective in small quantities. More is not better. On brand new prints Steve summed it up very well. Even if you do nothing else for the life of the print, I would recommend running fresh media pads saturated in FG on your virgin screening. Then keep those same pads (not resoaked) on that brand new print for at least a few more runs before you take it off. The idea here is to get all of the shipping dirt off of the print before it has a chance to collect and scratch. Other benefits here are cutting the static to prevent wraps as well as to stop print shedding.  |  IP: Logged Benjamin J. Kepner Film Handler Posts: 15 From: Muskegon, MI, USA Registered: May 2002 posted 09-01-2003 04:16 PM                     So even if the pads are getting severely dirty you shouldn't change them daily (say 4-5 shows/day). I only say this because I have a print of Tombraider II that had such a problem with shedding that I was having to take the CO2 canister to the projector every show and still having to spend about 10 mins cleaning it. It took me about 2 weeks to get this film clean and for the first few days I was changing pads every day. The film is much cleaner now, but would this process taken less time say if I had left the pads on for at least a few days before changing them, or would that not have impacted it much? The print is much better now, and has a beautiful picture. I just wish my company would allow me more than 4 cleaners for my booth. There are 16 screens here, two of which are generally running cleaners for prevention at all times. On one of my cleaners the pads have a tendency of creeping outwards, which can cause problems if they aren't caught in time (Fc-1 Christie). Which leaves me with one cleaner to shift around for problem prints since I only use the Christie in emergency situations such as the times the AC units have poured water on prints overnight (those were some fun Monday mornings).  |  IP: Logged Brad Miller Administrator Posts: 17775 From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall) Registered: May 99 posted 09-01-2003 07:08 PM                     It mostly depends on your platter. If you have an AW3 with the brain spring removed, then that exerts just about perfect tension and yes you could've ran a few days without changing. If that spring was still in the center brain roller, then you probably couldn't have ran more than a couple of shows without having to change out the pads due to the increased pressure on the media. On the other hand if you have a Strong platter, you could probably run a week on dirty pads. There just isn't enough backtension to do a very good job of cleaning without a LOT of passes on a Strong. It all just depends on your equipment.  |  IP: Logged Michael Trotochaud Film Handler Posts: 11 From: Alexandria, VA, USA Registered: Dec 2002 posted 09-01-2003 08:35 PM                     Just want to check a couple things out. Fresh media and FG on prints first run lubricates it. Subsiquent runs will clean it. Does this mean that the media and FG need to be used once before it starts cleaning it, or does it mean that the print needs an initial coat. If it is the initial coat that is needed, why would putting on fresh media and FG not clean the print? Mike  |  IP: Logged Gordon McLeod Film God Posts: 9532 From: Toronto Ontario Canada Registered: Jun 99 posted 09-01-2003 08:45 PM                     Who actually made the perferated teflon tape that was sold with the cinebug's  |  IP: Logged Brad Miller Administrator Posts: 17775 From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall) Registered: May 99 posted 09-01-2003 10:49 PM                     Subsequent passes through the film cleaner will clean the print, not just running it through a projector. I'm not sure if that is what you are asking or if you are asking something else.  |  IP: Logged Michael Trotochaud Film Handler Posts: 11 From: Alexandria, VA, USA Registered: Dec 2002 posted 09-02-2003 12:07 AM                     Brad, I'm referring to this statement that you made above: quote: Jeff, 3 times on an old dirty print may not be enough. Also, did you use freshly saturated pads on all 3 of those runs? The key here is to remember that on the pass with fresh media and FG, you are NOT cleaning the film. You are only coating and lubricating. It is the subsequent passes through those same pads (not resaturated) that starts pulling off the dirt. I was/am confused as to why runs with fresh media and FG doesn't clean it justs coats and lubricates. Perhaps I'm just misreading the statement. I guess what I'm asking is why does it matter if he uses fresh media and FG on each pass or if he goes through the same old media everytime. If the cleaning happens with using the same media, what happens at the start of the next week when you replace it, does it not clean during the first run? I hope my question makes more sense. Mike  |  IP: Logged Brad Miller Administrator Posts: 17775 From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall) Registered: May 99 posted 09-02-2003 12:09 AM                     When the pads are freshly wet, they don't clean much. That first pass is transferring the FG from the media to the print. The pads are too slick to really clean the print well on the first pass. It's the second pass where the real cleaning starts.  |  IP: Logged Carl Martin Phenomenal Film Handler Posts: 1424 From: Oakland, CA, USA Registered: Feb 2002 posted 09-02-2003 02:15 AM                        is there a size limit to the dirt particles that fg can remove? when we ran bad boys 2, i noticed on the very first showing that reel 3 (or 4) had a lot of large dirt specks--the guy who built it thought there might have been little pieces of paper in the can--all over it. i sat through the film the very last show after ~30 fg passes and it didn't appear to have cleared up at all. in general though, there is a lot less tiny dirt on our prints. carl  |  IP: Logged Brad Miller Administrator Posts: 17775 From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall) Registered: May 99 posted 09-02-2003 02:33 AM                     Large chunks of dirt are easier to remove than the small pieces. My guess is that it is something else plaguing those reels.  |  IP: Logged Frank Angel Film God Posts: 5305 From: Brooklyn NY USA Registered: Dec 1999 posted 09-02-2003 02:51 AM                        The piece of PerFix that I left overnight soaking in FG remained unscathed. Unfortunately I have no way of knowing who manufactured the stuff that was on the print. I think I said before that the repair tape was disolved by FG. That is not actually the case. I pulled a section off today and found that the adhesive (which is white) was what was affected. It has oozed out all over. The tape itself seemed OK, although it now looks clear with a splotchy, uneven white adhesive all over it. Anyway, it might be a good thing to note on the instructions that FG can loosen some types of sprocket hole repair tape and that the user should test a few frames of the repair before applying it to the entire print. This print had 20 to 30 feet of repair and it wasn't fun (16mm Perfix is a nightmare to work with) Frank  |  IP: Logged

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