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Author Topic: Platter problems. Speco LP270/3. bottom platter scratching John Pytlak Film God Posts: 9987 From: Rochester, NY 14650-1922 Registered: Jan 2000 posted 08-23-2003 09:50 PM                        Gaffer's Tape: http://shop.store.yahoo.com/cinemasupplies/2progpergaft3.html http://www.cutfilm.com/supplies.html http://www.goodbrothers.com/Search.bok?category=Supplies http://www.phototechinc.com/tapes.htm http://www.dudleytheatrical.com/pages/tape.html  |  IP: Logged Bill Langfield Master Film Handler Posts: 280 From: Prospect, NSW, Australia Registered: Apr 2001 posted 08-24-2003 06:02 PM                        Kevin, Sounds very much like emulsion side down scratching by the plate at take up. These are scratches (green ones) going from top left to bottom right. RIGHT?? Firstly, I believe the newer Speco's are the BEST platters going around. The problem with the earlier ones (with the slide-adjustable take-up roller) was that, with bottom deck there was only about 10mm between it locking in and GOING TOO low, which can be missed. On the top and middle deck you noticed pretty quick if you did not get a GOOD lock. The white paint used on earlier Speco's sucked, and was easy damaged by moving prints all the time, so having a print drag on that area (the edge) would not be good. (The new ones seem to have a more durable surface) Regarding the the locking pin, they suck, when they come loose they are a pain in the ass to fix, but once loc-tighten they are fine, until the spring in pin gives up. Then try removing one loc-tightened! The newer Speco's, where you have to actually remove the whole take up roller and move it to a different are deck, are a 'pain', but at least you are sure it's not going anywhere. (Even if they do use the same pin) The 'inbween' Speco's that used complicated 'digital' to detect which plate should be taking-up/paying-out plain sucked. That said, and again I think SPECO is the BEST, it seems many platter systems have this lower deck problem where the take up roller-slide assembly can can slip just that 1/2 inch lower that where it should be. 1/ The older Speco. (BTW: Never skip a take-up roller and use 4 of the 5, it winds F888ing TIGHT!!!) 2/ The AW-3 (been so long, cant even remember if the older ones had slide take up rollers) 3/ The CNR-35 (though this one will not take up unless it is locked into place, activating a micro switch) 4/ The ERM, can even remember the name now, but they sucked, erm, Eprad perhaps, I hated those. 5/ No wonder I got FIRED, I can't remember a thing. Stress?? (Hello to 'I KNOW WHO YOU ARE' - asshole) Back to your problem, there are 3 things I've noted with Speco's. 1/ They need to be DEAD level - Not that, that effects the overall film path. 2/ They need to be put together correctly - and even if so... 3/ They need slight modifications. (one being 'angle of attack' of the arm that holds the plate) Point three is the most important in your case. (and this is a bit hard to explain) All 3 or 4 arms that hold the plate up are not always 'square' to level when bolted together. The four bolts that hold the arm on might need a washer or two added to the lower two bolts to 'lift' it a little. (The Film never needs to drag on the outer edge of the plate - a 1/4 inch (max) above is fine, I say) As it seems you are only having trouble with the lower deck pin location, I would straight away drill and pin so the roller assembly can't EVER go below where it can drag the film on the plate. (It is intersting however, that you note, you have never seen the film drag on the plate) You point out the MUT might be being a cause. Are you using 35mm/70mm (Speco) rollers to make-up from MUT to plate? If so, avoid it, they pinch the film, get 35mm rollers off another MUT. I'm not saying that is the problem though. Again with the MUT, I know it's annoying to get the roller in the right position to make-up to plate, but an idea is to mark where the roller should be for each plate with a paint marker in a general area slightly AVOVE the perfect spot! Also make sure all take-up rollers track with the plate as it fills up. I would stay with sound track down (on the test film you suggested) until you find the cause, you said you are using film-guard, this could be masking how many prints are being damaged, due to film guard being able to 'fix' base damage. Just a few thoughts. Regards Bill.  |  IP: Logged Darryl Spicer Film God Posts: 3250 From: Lexington, KY, USA Registered: Dec 2000 posted 08-24-2003 06:59 PM                    I have seen situations with the pins where the opperator did not get them seated in the hole and they would drop down causing the film to drag on the deck. The issue with the paint is not neccassarily because it is bad but because people let the ring pins scrape the decks. the newer rings use nylon pins. The removable take up rollers were available for the older speco decks with the fixed pisition slide in for threading rollers. The AW3's used the sliding bars from the start as far as I know. The AW2's used the ones that swong with a door closer michanism. Specos are very good platters if you keep them maintained and watch for things getting out of alighnment. The tables he talks about sounds like the wooden ones. I only built up films and took them apart using the middle platters and no rollers when using those. The gray tables are really not that hard to get the film to the platter decks in reguards to roller adjustment. If I remember right I had to take a roller assembly from another table that could slide on the bar upside down so that the film could run on as if it were like a christie table.  |  IP: Logged Ky Boyd Hey I'm #23 Posts: 314 From: Santa Rosa, CA, USA Registered: Jun 99 posted 08-28-2003 08:08 PM                       Kevin, the subject of MUT's reminded me to ask, are you using the old style genuine fake woodgrain mut with the horizontal reel? If so, Ian and I highly recommend springing for a new MUT from SPECO. We inherited the old style muts with the equipment at our theatre. After a year we sprung for a new MUT after seeing it at ShoWest. I can't tell you how much of a difference it makes. And the good news is that the new MUT wasn't that expensive - about $800 (including tax, shipping, etc) and worth every penny.  |  IP: Logged Kevin Wale Expert Film Handler Posts: 167 From: Guymon, OK USA Registered: Aug 2003 posted 08-28-2003 10:42 PM                     Oh yes, we have three of those awefull things! LOL. I'll show the owner your recommendation on that. I don't get to make decisions on such expenses. The other theatre they own has AW3s(our AW3s are on the filterdown screens and never see a new print unfortunately) and they seldom scratch film and they have all teenage projectionists! Such continues to leave me thinking that those awefull makeup tables are largely the culprit.  |  IP: Logged Brad Miller Administrator Posts: 17775 From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall) Registered: May 99 posted 08-28-2003 10:47 PM                     Kevin, do you have keeper rollers on your makeup table rollers? If not ORDER THEM! I don't know why SPECO thought when they were designing that unit that the film would somehow magically stay put on those rollers, because it won't. I have built hundreds of prints with those wooden table horizontal MUTs and never had a scratched print. (Of course the first thing I would do in any SPECO booth was to order the keepers and brackets and put them on pronto.) The SPECO LP-270 is a pretty damned good platter. If I couldn't have an AW3, that (or the LP-280) would be the only other acceptable platter on my list.  |  IP: Logged Kevin Wale Expert Film Handler Posts: 167 From: Guymon, OK USA Registered: Aug 2003 posted 08-28-2003 11:27 PM                     I've not used the lp280 but I agree... I really like the Speco platters. Particularly the brain. The speed arm is just that... a speed arm. Not a on/off switch. LOL One thing I am really talking about and stressing is slowing down. We were taught to basically do it as fast as you can and performance seemed to be judged by how fast you could break down a film. Of course a few times, you get a print in at 6:00 and you've got to move pretty quick to get ready for the 7:00 show(after having already lost the 4:00 show because the plane left late,) but that's another thing altogether.  |  IP: Logged Chris Greenwell Film Handler Posts: 28 From: West Valley, Ut Registered: Mar 2003 posted 08-29-2003 04:04 PM                     I ran the old drive in platters (Specos) for years and never had really any problems to mention. I had more problems with the LP270's that were from about 10 years ago with all the extra rollers., But I really dig the brand new ones, I like how they made it so the control panel can flip down instead of having to remove the screws. Also how easy they made it to change out the switches instead of having to take three hours to soldier a new one back in..  |  IP: Logged

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