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Author Topic: A New THX Trailer Darren Briggs Master Film Handler Posts: 371 From: York, UK Registered: Dec 2001 posted 12-20-2003 09:34 AM                        Bounty THX Trailer. This has to be played at fader 7 to give any impact at all. I like the idea of just having THX displayed on screen with the lighting effects shining on it, the dialogue clips are great, and fly around the auditorium well. The 'Deep Note' is very weak, and played at anything less then fader 7 it sounds pathetic. If the 'Deep Note' lasted longer and louder like all the other trailers, this would be up there with the rest. Darren  |  IP: Logged Bobby Henderson "Ask me about Trajan." Posts: 10973 From: Lawton, OK, USA Registered: Apr 2001 posted 12-20-2003 04:09 PM                     I have a theory about the subdued mix on this one. The same 5.1 audio featured on this clip may be used on THX certified DVDs played on millions of home theater systems. Over the years I have noticed the THX clips on DVD have the audio backed waaay down. I can only guess they are doing this as a result of so many newbies getting into the DVD thing and buying cheap home theater systems not very capable of producing strong levels of bass (much less signals of strength in other various frequency subbands). The earlier, much louder sounding trailers may be popping some of those cheap speaker drivers. In the early days of DVD, discs like "True Lies" would have the bass on the "Broadway" clip amped through the roof. Recent DVDs have had very tame audio by comparison. Anyone notice how tame sounding the "Broadway 2000" clip was, particularly on the Indiana Jones box set? I've seen different mixes on the same trailers too. One version of "Grand" I have on DVD is very loud and very potent on the bass end. The recent one showing up on the 2-disc "Speed" DVD and "In Hell" had lower levels of bass. Same goes for the "Tex 2: Moo Can" trailer. The one featured on the "Toy Story 2" disc from the Ultimate Toy Box has a mix that really stomps. The same trailer on the "Monsters Inc." DVD is pretty tame by comparison.  |  IP: Logged Darren Briggs Master Film Handler Posts: 371 From: York, UK Registered: Dec 2001 posted 12-21-2003 06:23 AM                        Maybe bobby is right, but wouldnt they just limit the audio when mastering the DVD? Ive got two versions of the Cimarron 70mm logo, the full screen 2.2:1 logo has the most amazing audio, with the 'zoom' sound as the screen explodes with light, sounding both orchestral and synthesized, the 1.85:1 within the 2.2:1 frame has a more plain orchestral 'zoom' which is less powerfull than the other. Both end in the most awsum way as the THX flys over head to the surrounds. Cant beat the good old 70mm sound, even the plain Broadway knocks the socks of any digital sound. Un-compressed audio is the way forward. Darren  |  IP: Logged Bobby Henderson "Ask me about Trajan." Posts: 10973 From: Lawton, OK, USA Registered: Apr 2001 posted 12-21-2003 11:07 AM                     quote: Maybe bobby is right, but wouldnt they just limit the audio when mastering the DVD? That would require two audio masters, thus costing more money. Maybe Lucasfilm just wants to apply the same tame mix across all 5.1 outlets. Yes the old 70mm mag THX trailers definitely had more "oomph" to them. But in that day a theater equipped for 70mm and certified for THX would likely have a more powerful sound system than what we typically see getting installed in a lot of new theaters. 10 years ago the very best movie theaters in America typically had very powerful sound systems capable of reproducing extremely dynamic sound pressure levels. IMHO, items like the mix of the original 70mm THX "Broadway" trailer or the original mix of the Dolby Digital "Train" trailer were designed to be played loudly in these kinds of theaters. Lesser theaters got speakers damaged. Instead of theaters making the proper investments of hardware in the first place the cheapie people obviously whined and make organizations like THX and Dolby tone down their bombastic trailer mixes. Now we're seeing the second generation of that for home theater. Lots of people are buying cheap "all in one" home theaters in a box for under $300. What kind of sound quality or dynamic capability can one expect to get with a system like that. I'm sure lots of newbies have popped the little 1" drivers in those tiny cutesie cube speakers when turning up the volume a little. Few newbies can manage to go into their system setup and adjust their Dolby Digital settings from "max" down to the "normal" or "night" settings that would be more appropriate for their cheap system and paper thin walled apartment environs. So we get toned down home theater mixes instead. Yeah, overall I think newer DVDs, collectively on average, are less loud and less aggressive on their 5.1 mixes than they were a couple years ago or so. You have some exceptions like the LOTR movies, but overall I think there are fewer greatly aggressive mixes happening. The complaints of DVD newbies have to be a factor. I just thank God the newbies haven't succeeded in banning widescreen DVDs. But it is getting tougher avoiding all the "foolscreen" versions clogging the shelves.  |  IP: Logged Ron Lacheur Jedi Master Film Handler Posts: 650 From: British Columbia, Canada Registered: Feb 2002 posted 12-21-2003 01:02 PM                     Well said Bobby. The so-called " subwoofers " in those $300 HTIB are pathetic. They bottom out on the Fox Fanfare. But like anything, you get what you pay for. As for dvd mixes, some of them recently have been released with a " Enhanced for Home Theater Mix ". The Lion King was one of the titles. The engineer said in the interview that it's basically the IMAX sound mix. You can really hear the difference as they provide the theaterical 5.1 mix as well.  |  IP: Logged Darren Briggs Master Film Handler Posts: 371 From: York, UK Registered: Dec 2001 posted 12-21-2003 04:19 PM                        SO the IMAX mix should be great as they are the only other cinemas aside from THX ones that have a very high power system.  |  IP: Logged Miguel Angel Martorell Film Handler Posts: 81 From: Valencia, Spain Registered: Jan 2002 posted 01-10-2004 05:13 AM                     A few days ago my manager came with 2 posters of THX and 6 THX Bounty traylers (3 flat & 3 scope). To my surprise all of this traylers only show the deep note part. No clips of different movies. Besides, here in Spain the latest premiered film (The last Samurai) which come with DTS disc there´s no Bounty Trayler on it, only the old THX traylers. Like Kevin Kline said in A fish called Wanda..."WHAT A DISSAPOINTMENT". Un saludo  |  IP: Logged David Graham Rose Expert Film Handler Posts: 187 From: Cambridge, UK Registered: Sep 2002 posted 01-10-2004 03:31 PM                     Greetings All from the ITEA seminars Please please please could someone tell me why there is no one left in this industry with any knowledge of sound? To call the soundmark of THX a 'deep note' is incredibly is unscientific. It is actually a chord. Not a note. A note would be of a unique frequency, not a mixture of many frequencies. Should anyone have the time, or indeed, the inclination to place one's audio analyser in the auditorium and play the THX trailer and examine the frequency response this will bcome ocvious. Is it any wonder that many circuits are turning their backs on THX accreditation, when the same self alleged 'experts' can not differentiate between a note and a chord? Maybe some of these esteemed THX employees should be encouraged to take a visit over to the UK where the majority of our audio engineers (not naming any corporations)come fully equipped with B.A (Tonmeister)or B.Mus degrees and thus are able to differentiate between a note and a chord (no doubt without the aid of an analyser).  |  IP: Logged Daryl C. W. O'Shea Film God Posts: 3977 From: Midland Ontario Canada (where Panavision & IMAX lenses come from) Registered: Jun 2002 posted 01-10-2004 07:32 PM                        Maybe they're just being creative.  |  IP: Logged Manny Knowles "What are these things and WHY are they BLUE???" Posts: 4247 From: Bloomington, IN, USA Registered: Feb 2002 posted 01-11-2004 01:12 AM                     Funny Daryl. I find the name curious moreso because I'm not mindful of a "deep note" in the THX soundmark. For me, the higher pitched crescendo is the memorable bit.  |  IP: Logged Michael Schaffer "Where is the Boardwalk Hotel?" Posts: 4143 From: Boston, MA Registered: Apr 2002 posted 01-11-2004 01:55 AM                        Sorry David, the classic THX sound is actually not a chord. A chord contains three or more notes typically spaced a third apart where in Western musical theory the third determines whether it is a minor or major chord. The THX sound is an empty fifth which could be seen as an "Orgelpunkt" or "pedal point", except that a pedal point usually serves as the harmonic basis for the upper voices while in the trailers, it is just a standing sound. That the notes are doubled in the octaves to achieve a fuller sound plays no role from the point of musical theory.  |  IP: Logged Gordon McLeod Film God Posts: 9532 From: Toronto Ontario Canada Registered: Jun 99 posted 01-11-2004 01:54 PM                     yes get those 32' and 64' pipes working  |  IP: Logged William Hooper Phenomenal Film Handler Posts: 1879 From: Mobile, AL USA Registered: Jun 99 posted 01-12-2004 12:06 AM                        Wow, Gordon, you made me realize that you almost hit it on the head! It's a fifth; they're trying to manufacture a resultant in the auditorium. That's why they call it a "deep note". It's a potshot the way they're trying to do it, so lots of people hear it miss. http://www.organstops.org/r/Resultant.html  |  IP: Logged

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