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Topic: Newbies Training Newbies

Michael Schaffer
"Where is the
Boardwalk Hotel?"

Posts: 4143
From: Boston, MA
Registered: Apr 2002

posted 10-14-2003 03:05 PM

??? It is better to have the base side of the film on the roller if you want to avoid the emulsion being scratched off.

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James Falloon
Film Handler

Posts: 72
From: Wigram, Christchurch, New Zealand
Registered: Oct 2003

posted 10-14-2003 03:14 PM

No it was not paid, sorry, I'll give you a bit more background.

We run a theatre in a small town (population 3500-4000) we usually show movies about 5 times a week, one on Fri and two on Sat and Sunday. When I was being trained I would go up to the projection room for maybe two movies a week, and I would also go if there was anything being fixed, I learned a lot that way.

It was unpaid, and I think that sorts out those who truly care about what they are doing and those that don't. And lets face it, having someone who's only in it for the money is probably not going to provide the highest level of showmanship.

We now have what we call a small "training allowance" for trainees coming up to going solo, then we put them on full wage. I don't agree that trainees should go unpaid, you are after all getting some work out of them.

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Mark J. Marshall
Film God

Posts: 3188
From: New Castle, DE, USA
Registered: Aug 2002

posted 10-14-2003 03:37 PM

quote:
It's about keeping the emulsion side of the film towards as many rollers as possible--the theory being that orienting the film this way cuts down on shedding with polyester prints

quote:
It is better to have the base side of the film on the roller if you want to avoid the emulsion being scratched off.

Why not just make sure all the rollers are turning freely so neither side gets damaged?

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Michael Schaffer
"Where is the
Boardwalk Hotel?"

Posts: 4143
From: Boston, MA
Registered: Apr 2002

posted 10-14-2003 03:52 PM

quote:
Why not just make sure all the rollers are turning freely so neither side gets damaged?

That goes without saying.

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John Pytlak
Film God

Posts: 9987
From: Rochester, NY 14650-1922
Registered: Jan 2000

posted 10-14-2003 04:00 PM

"Newbies training Newbies" = "the Blind leading the Blind". [Wink]

But if you are training others, it is often useful to engage the slightly more experienced students in SUPERVISED training of those with no experience. It reinforces what they have already learned, and will show the instructor areas they have not yet mastered.

I agree with Brad that handling and showing a print hundreds of times without adding dirt or scratches should be the goal of anyone trying to have "Film Done Right". Mistakes happen, but don't have to.

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Brad Miller
Administrator

Posts: 17775
From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall)
Registered: May 99

posted 10-14-2003 04:06 PM

quote:
It is better to have the base side of the film on the roller if you want to avoid the emulsion being scratched off.

We have a winner for someone who never asked "why". Mike, go to a theater with the emulsion side of the film threaded on a roller. Grab that roller with your hand to prevent it from spinning. Is the film getting scratched? No. That's the whole point of the rollers being beveled inwards. So even if a roller was to seize during a show, your film would still not get scratched. (Only the SDDS tracks are in any amount of danger, but I've walked into plenty of theaters running SDDS with seized rollers that tracked fine.)

Rule #1, minimize the film twisting. Never should the film twist more than 90 degrees, unless it is over a great distance (5+ feet is fine). At over 5 feet, it is ok if you need to twist greater than 90 degrees.

Rule #2, whenever there is the option without breaking rule #1 that permits you to run the film emulsion side on the rollers...do it. Much personal testing has consistently proven that it is the base side of the film that carries the dirt. Running on the emulsion keeps your rollers, and your film cleaner for a longer period of time. This means non-operator side platters should have the soundtrack toward the lamphouse when flying to and from the projector. Operator side platters should have the soundtrack facing towards the screen to and from the projector. This whole thing I keep running into "soundtrack towards the screen going towards the projector/soundtrack away from the screen going toward the platter" is just stupid. Clearly no one bothered to ask "why". All other platter roller orientation is dependent upon the make of your platter.

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Frank Bruno
Film Handler

Posts: 50
From: houston, tx
Registered: Aug 2003

posted 10-14-2003 07:02 PM

It doesn't help to ask why when there's no one to ask. I'd also bet there's a good ammoutn of "just because" given out as an answer to that, ive had to deflate a good ammount of that at my own theater.

Im not gonna get off on a rant about my own rather strange training odyssey here, but it soemtimes sems like most of this board come from some fantasy land of projectioantorial enightenment. Nobody wants to ask a question & get their head bitten off for asking. Instead of complaining about poorly trained newbie operators (I think multi-tasked manager-operators are an equally bad thing by the way) how about some constructive & altruistic attempt to reverse this trend? How about a "kindergarten" board or something. Might not get much traffic, but wouldnt it at least be worth the shot? In my first year or two if there had been a good, basic resource of which I could ask questions without fear of the "What are you stupid?" response, I'd have probably taken advantage of it.

That downloadable training course mentioned by I beleive Mr Knowles is defintiely now the worst idea either, although it'd have to be really general. I have AMC materials that are kinda useless beyond policy issues, as they're really specific to much newer & more different projectors than those I have at my theater.

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Manny Knowles
"What are these things and WHY are they BLUE???"

Posts: 4247
From: Bloomington, IN, USA
Registered: Feb 2002

posted 10-14-2003 08:07 PM

I misunderstood the question in the first place.

I thought Brad was suggesting that the soundtrack really *should* face one way going over to and another way coming back from the projector. I kept scratching my head trying to figure out what that was all about.

Note to Brad -- Try to be a little more clear next time, would ya ? [Wink]

I would really like to see a fully-developed Film-Tech booth training program but here are the problems I foresee:

1. Lots of different equipment prevents specific directions for use. A downloadable training program would have to be limited to general principles.
2. Bickering will ensue when all the F-Techers get together and start challenging the various published techniques.
3. Having materials available doesn't necessarily make the trainer qualified to train people.

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Gordon McLeod
Film God

Posts: 9532
From: Toronto Ontario Canada
Registered: Jun 99

posted 10-14-2003 09:37 PM

Also it is important to remember many corporations have policys that may differ from best practices that employes must follow to keep there jobs

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Bob Maar
(Maar stands for Maartini)

Posts: 28608
From: New York City & Newport, RI
Registered: Feb 2001

posted 10-15-2003 04:14 PM

Even though I posted this in with the jokes, it really fits this thread much better.

A boy ,a man and a mule

An old man, a boy and a mule were going to town.

The boy rode on the mule and the old man walked.

As they went along they passed some people who remarked it was a shame the old man was walking and the boy was riding.

The old man and the boy thought that maybe the critics were right, so they changed places.

Later, they passed some more people that remarked, "What a shame he makes that little boy walk."

They then decided they both would walk. Soon they passed some more people who thought they were stupid to walk when they had a decent mule to ride.

So, they both rode the mule.

Now they passed some more people that shamed them by saying how awful to see such a load on a poor mule.

The boy and the man said they were probably right, so they decided to carry the mule.

As they crossed a bridge, they lost their grip on the animal and he fell into the river and drowned.

The moral of the story?

If you try to please everyone, you might as well kiss your ass good-bye.

[ 10-15-2003, 07:54 PM: Message edited by: Bob Maar ]

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Paul G. Thompson
The Weenie Man

Posts: 4718
From: Mount Vernon WA USA
Registered: Nov 2000

posted 10-15-2003 06:53 PM

Bob, that fits a quote made by the late Harry Truman. He said, "No matter what you do, some son-of-a-bitch won't like it."

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Phil Hill
I love my cootie bug

Posts: 7595
From: Hollywood, CA USA
Registered: Mar 2000

posted 10-15-2003 06:55 PM

Yeah, and both are very true!

I like Bob's story better! [beer]

>>> Phil

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Antonio Marcheselli
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1260
From: Florence, Italy
Registered: Mar 2000

posted 10-15-2003 07:36 PM

Interesting thread!

Initially I learn the job in two months, where I wasn't the only projectionists so I had the chance to learn all with all the time needed. The first day I was left alone a belt failed but I was able to continue with the show in a couple of minutes (because the projectionist showed me how to change it!)!

I had two different experiences in the Multiplex world: in one of them the training was as many of you told: "show him how to thread a machine". That's all.
Then the "projectionist" call for help just for a frame issue...

At the beginning of this year I had the chance to train my first team (in another multiplex!), they had absolutely no experience and I had three week to teach the basics.
My way is to teach the procedures but also to teach WHY. In the very beginning is more difficult (show how a print is made, how a projector work...) but in a couple of months you realize that all you efforts spent in the first period are coming out and are helping you and your team A LOT doing the daily job.

In my opinion teaching why some procedures has to be done in a certain way helps the projectionist to increase his responsibility. A well trained projectionist can analyze better the projection than a "thread the projector this way" method and, I believe, he realize that he's able to understand things that others cannot, increasing the professionality in his job.

Bye
A

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Gordon McLeod
Film God

Posts: 9532
From: Toronto Ontario Canada
Registered: Jun 99

posted 10-15-2003 09:15 PM

Frank said" but it soemtimes sems like most of this board come from some fantasy land of projectioantorial enightenment. Nobody wants to ask a question & get their head bitten off for asking. Instead of complaining about poorly trained newbie operators (I think multi-tasked manager-operators are an equally bad thing by the way) how about some constructive & altruistic attempt to reverse this trend? "
Okay you made a point, so, time to bite your head off!
The only times I have seen heads bitten off is when people don't take the time to do a search of the site before asking the same question.
2 none of us are in fanatasy land. In fact those who often awsner those "stupid questions" (no intent to degrade anyone) probably are the ones that have to come out in the middle of the night to fix the mistake or "stupid" problem
As for solvng the problem half the problem is the people don't want to treat a craft as anything put a parttime beer money job or employerers who want to keep it that way and at the same time bitch over the service call bills

End of rant time, to drink some more wine and wait for the next emergancy call

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Manny Knowles
"What are these things and WHY are they BLUE???"

Posts: 4247
From: Bloomington, IN, USA
Registered: Feb 2002

posted 10-15-2003 09:44 PM

quote:
I had two different experiences in the Multiplex world: in one of them the training was as many of you told: "show him how to thread a machine". That's all.
Then the "projectionist" call for help just for a frame issue...

First, I feel it is necessary to re-state that the original topic is more about *who* is doing the training and not so much about *what* is being trained.

But, for the record, there is something going on that I find a little disturbing...

Some of the people who are in favor of an all-out comprehensive course keep throwing out the "straw-man argument" that would have us believe that the only alternative is the inadequate, so-called "button-pushing" or "teach them to thread" approach.

Listen -- I have *no doubt* that there really are such situations. I am only saying that somewhere between "create a monster" and "train a monkey" are other alternatives which can result in well-trained booth staff and good presentations.

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