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Author Topic: Distinguishing Dolby A Prints from SR Richard Fowler Film God Posts: 2392 From: Ft. Lauderdale, FL, USA Registered: Jun 2001 posted 10-18-2003 10:50 PM                     DTS analog can have either A or SR encoding either done on the recording stage or optical house. A is popular out of the country depending on the state of the art of the market served.  |  IP: Logged Ron Yost Master Film Handler Posts: 344 From: Paso Robles, CA Registered: Aug 2003 posted 10-18-2003 11:54 PM                     Bobby .. isn't the "SR" either Microgramma or Eurostile?? I think I used Eurostile Medium once and it looked fine. Was long ago, tho. Ron Yost  |  IP: Logged Max Biela Film Handler Posts: 89 From: Dortmund, Germany Registered: Sep 2003 posted 10-19-2003 02:03 AM                     Bobby, which logo is the ORIGINAL? This one I have found on an encoding unit. Or do you mean the logo "Dolby Stereo" with "Spectral Recording" on the top? Max  |  IP: Logged Carl Martin Phenomenal Film Handler Posts: 1424 From: Oakland, CA, USA Registered: Feb 2002 posted 10-19-2003 03:18 AM                        quote: Mono prints (which can be identified visually) this probably doesn't crop up too often, but is there any way to visually distinguish a true mono track from an effectively mono track encoded in dolby A or SR, woody-style? do you just have to check the leaders for that? carl  |  IP: Logged Matthew Jaro Film Handler Posts: 74 From: Gaithersburg, MD, USA Registered: Jul 2003 posted 10-19-2003 01:01 PM                        Thanks for all the help. I wanted to know because I want to get the right encoding set before the show starts. I don't want to have to go into the theatre to try to figure out if the sound is muffled or not. Often a film might start with dialog or very low music and it takes a while to figure it out. Also, it would seem unprofessional to twiddle with the sound during the show.  |  IP: Logged Ken Lackner Phenomenal Film Handler Posts: 1907 From: Atlanta, GA, USA Registered: Sep 2001 posted 10-19-2003 02:22 PM                     Do you not screen your prints before you the first show? That would be the time to play around with the sound if you have to. Do the Woody Allen prints say SR on the leader or do they say mono? (Yes, I know the mix is mono, but it uses SR noise reduction, right?) Why do mono and A-type prints sound crappy when played in SR, but SR prints sound OK when played in A?  |  IP: Logged Gordon McLeod Film God Posts: 9532 From: Toronto Ontario Canada Registered: Jun 99 posted 10-19-2003 02:59 PM                     1st SR prints do not sound okay in A type listen to a seen with wind or rain and try to understand the dialogue They are different types of noise reduction encoding system  |  IP: Logged Matthew Jaro Film Handler Posts: 74 From: Gaithersburg, MD, USA Registered: Jul 2003 posted 10-19-2003 09:20 PM                        No -- I am a film collector, not a professional movie house. So if friends want to see a film, I put it on. There is really no time to pre-screen the film. This is also why I run changeover rather than platters. If I ever figure out what the encoding is, I'll start marking the prints.  |  IP: Logged Bobby Henderson "Ask me about Trajan." Posts: 10973 From: Lawton, OK, USA Registered: Apr 2001 posted 10-19-2003 11:13 PM                     Max, the logo you showed is not the original Dolby SR logo. In fact, it is an improper duplication since it incorrectly uses Arial in the layout. Dolby Labs' corporate identity strictly specifies the use of Eurostile and Helvetica (with the 55, 55 Bold, 65 and 65 Bold weights from Linotype AG being the right versions). For those interested in the differences between Helvetica and Arial, please read this article: http://www.ms-studio.com/articles.html Usually when I see Arial in the layout it came from someone trying to do graphics in MS Word or from a Windows-based machine without any access to Helvetica (Helvetica is a standard font for the Mac). Here's a quick collage I put together: The logo at top gives you an idea how the original Dolby SR logo appeared (I scanned that one from a newspaper ad; the halftone screen in the background screws it up good). The second logo is the Dolby SR logo that is most familiar to everyone. The third logo is the corporate Dolby mark (with Helvetica 65 Bold used instead of Arial). The fourth piece of art is a diagram sent to me from Dolby Labs' Roger Dressler showing the formula for properly laying out a Dolby Digital logo.  |  IP: Logged Aaron Sisemore Flaming Ribs beat Reeses Peanut Butter Cups any day! Posts: 3061 From: Rockwall TX USA Registered: Sep 1999 posted 10-20-2003 01:06 AM                     quote: Do the Woody Allen prints say SR on the leader or do they say mono? They say SR (and any other formats) regardless of the mix. In the 70's and 80s when dual inventory still ruled there were also 'true mono' prints of Woody Allen movies out there as well. -Aaron  |  IP: Logged Frank Angel Film God Posts: 5305 From: Brooklyn NY USA Registered: Dec 1999 posted 10-20-2003 01:23 AM                        Ah, the joys of having multiple sound formats. I recall somewhere along the line someone saying that Dolby "owned" certain film geography. Where does any company lay claim to any area on a release print? Even if they patented a certain process that would reside in a certain area, such as the in space between the sprockets that currently are not used, what would prevent anyone else from putting whatever they wanted in that space, say the lab deciding to place track format information there? I am sure that Dolby (or anyone else) can only patent the process but not the print geography where they intended to put that process. Example: Problem with leaders is that down the line they can get detatched and lost (lots of times we get older prints with leaders that are not original to the print). It sure would be helpful if that little bit of print geography that is left (the sprocket spaces oposite the Dolby digital) were used to print vital data along the entire length of the print, such as those things that can't be know by observation -- the NR encoding type and even the reel number. Then all that head-scratching over whether it's A or SR and the controversy over whether or not to leave ID frames would all be moot. Again, I posit that no one can claim that they "own" any specific geography on the print, even if they are the mighty double D. Frank  |  IP: Logged Ken Lackner Phenomenal Film Handler Posts: 1907 From: Atlanta, GA, USA Registered: Sep 2001 posted 10-20-2003 01:59 AM                     Gordon, I didn't think that SR sounded OK in A, I was just going by what others have said on this and other threads. I have never personally listened to A played in SR or SR played in A (that I am aware of).  |  IP: Logged Manny Knowles "What are these things and WHY are they BLUE???" Posts: 4247 From: Bloomington, IN, USA Registered: Feb 2002 posted 10-20-2003 05:58 AM                     Ken, you should try it and see for yourself.  |  IP: Logged Warren Smyth Expert Film Handler Posts: 158 From: Auckland ,New Zealand Registered: Aug 2003 posted 10-20-2003 06:14 AM                     My experience indicates that when SR is played on A, the dialogue seems low relative to sound effects and music. Is this a typical result? To what extent is there a backward compatibility when A is played on SR? What is the impact on the audio?  |  IP: Logged Frank Angel Film God Posts: 5305 From: Brooklyn NY USA Registered: Dec 1999 posted 10-20-2003 11:40 PM                        Many times "backward compatibility" is in the ear of the beholder. When Dolby A prints were first introduced, they were double inventoried with non-dolby prints. The two were incompatible from an absolute, theoretical perspective that says what is encoded must be decoded in precisely the same manner. Every technician knows that playing a Dolby A without calibrated A-NR decoding will produce a distortion in the sound -- high end hiss and pumping. But what is true in theory becomes less true in the light of politics. When Dolby realized that the big stumbling block for CDS was the need for the distribs to double inventory, Dolby began saying that the studios DIDN'T need to double inventory, that Dobly A and Academy tracks, miraculously became compatible...."no need to double inventory; playing back Dolby A without decoding isn't THAT bad." All of a sudden, Dolby A prints worked perfectly well with standard, mono playback systems without A-NR. Twas a lot more politics than science. Just go into any sound studio and ask the recording engineer if he would consider a Dolby A encoded tape to be compatible with playing it back without A noise reduction. After he stops laughing, ask him if he thinks the sound would be acceptible. Same thing with A and SR. Is it "acceptable?" No more so than sticking a Wrattan 85 filter in front of the lens and over-warming the light temp to a incandescant value. Yah, you can "see" the image and maybe the audience won't walk out in droves, but it is still a distortion and not true to the original. It not what you can get away with, but how best to be true to the film maker's intent. Frank  |  IP: Logged

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