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Author Topic: Security Guards with Metal Detector Wands? Jean-Michel Grin Expert Film Handler Posts: 222 From: Geneva & Lausanne, Switzerland Registered: Jul 2002 posted 12-14-2003 07:50 PM                        One day we had a press sneak prewiew for a movie, we recieved all parts excepted the first part, this was delivered 15 minutes before the projection by a security guard. At the entrance of the multiplex, a second security guard had controled all the press licence of the journalists and refused the access to all guy who din't had is press card and the invitation to the screening ! Was a shame for us that we know all the periodists who come to see a press sneak prewiew ! The first security guard stayed during all the projection, next to the platters, and exiged that's the projectionist breaking down all the movie immediately, that it can take out and put it in a safe ! Some movie's distributors are verry anxious peoples  |  IP: Logged Bryan Fournier Film Handler Posts: 61 From: Greensboro, NC Registered: Dec 1999 posted 12-15-2003 12:39 AM                     I know that Hollywood is concerned about piracy, but if I had to guess I would say 90% of the problem is studio employees and/or associates. I don't believe the problem is with the nations projectionists. If they are so concerned now wait until digital projection becomes common, if ever.  |  IP: Logged Frank Angel Film God Posts: 5305 From: Brooklyn NY USA Registered: Dec 1999 posted 12-15-2003 01:53 AM                        Now there's a great idea....every guy walking into a theatre wears a cockring. Imagine theatres having to post a sign saying, "Purchasing a ticket may subject you to a full body search." It certainly would be the downfall of searches because it would render them useless (as useless are they are now). I so like the idea of putting something in the popcorn box, but I wouldn't make it a camera -- that would legitimize their search; but if the aluminum ball works on your person, just shove one into your barrel of popcorn....make them go fishing for it, then demand they give you a new bucket. Now imagine a hundred people doing it in one night! What most people fail to realize is that no amount property rights ever trumps the Constitutional guarantee of unwarranted search, especially of one's person. At my place we have had legal briefs on what we can and cannot do to patrons in the theatre. And a lot of things which you would think would be OK can get you in lots of legal hot water and open you up to big-time law suites. For example, suppose a person is causing a disturbance, or is sitting in the wrong seat (we have reserved seating for all live performances) -- situations that come up routinely for us. And suppose after you point out that they need to move or leave, they refuse. You would think, as I did, that we could just have a few of our football player/ushers drag them out and throw them out on their asses. Big no-no. To protect yourself, you shouldn't ever touch their person. If you need to physically remove them, it is essential that you call a policeman to do it for you. The minute you touch them, it moves everything into a much more complicate real of legal hodgepodge. When the lecturer ask me if I thought the house personnel had the right to throw someone out for something very obvious lilke sneaking in, I answered yes; I was wrong. If the person committed a crime, such as theft-of-service, which is what sneaking into the theatre without paying for a ticket it would be in NYC, the only way you could remove them bodily, short of calling a cop to do it, would be if the theatre personnel made a citizen's arrest, which, any lawyer will tell you, is a very, VERY dangerous thing to do, because the person who make the arrest can be sued as an individual, apart from any action that could also be levied against the theatre. Should the arrestor make a mistake, and his arrest turn out to be unwarrented, or even worse, the arrest action is legitimate BUT the arrestee wins the case on a technicality (and there are hundreds of them) which you as a non-lawyer couldn't possibly foresee when you are making what seems to you a very simple arrest, the person making the arrest could be liable for serious damages. Nothing in the legal system is simple, and juries tend not to like strong-arm tactics. A little play of the sympathy card -- say an innocent face or an older, helpless looking person (lots of our most ornery patrons are like 100 plus), and you can be in it deep. Some house manager in a performing arts theatre, in Atlanta I think, was personally sued for $40,000 for ousting an unruly patron and he LOST. Believe me, that is always foremost in my mind above all else when I am thinking about what to do with a problem patron! Now that cell phones are so ubiquitous, all you have to do is call the cops in front of the person and they all of a sudden become docile.....except the cranky old ones. They are not intimidated by anything. Sometime we just have to let them go rather than disturb and entire section of the audience, or even at times, cause a disturbance that could threaten the show to be stopped -- ballet dancers and orchestra conductors don't respond well to the sounds of a little old lady screaming that she's not going to get out of her seat. Theatre....aint it fun!  |  IP: Logged Randy Stankey Film God Posts: 6539 From: Erie, Pennsylvania Registered: Jun 99 posted 12-15-2003 10:34 AM                     I like the idea of putting the red herring (foil balls) into the popcorn! Let's take it one farther! On the nights when the distributor sends security goons to search customers, the theater should run a special promotion. Every customer who buys a large popcorn gets a special toy in the bottom of his/her bucket. Kinda' like a McDonald's "Happy Meal". Only we make sure there's a substantial amount of metal in the toy! Y'Know... Like those little light-up gewgaws shaped like some character in the movie. The "toys" come in nice, sanitary plastic bags... Metalized mylar bags just to make sure the detectors will go off! This way there's no need for a coordinated effort by many people and there's no way to accuse a customer of wrong-doing because it's not the customer who's perpetrating the act! PS: I've never had a problem ejecting a customer when the situation called for it. However, when a 6-foot, 250 pound guy comes out of the basement with a set of Cam-Lok tails around his neck, smelling faintly of burned electical insulation most people tend not to argue.  |  IP: Logged Jack Ondracek Film God Posts: 2348 From: Port Orchard, WA, USA Registered: Oct 2002 posted 12-15-2003 12:11 PM                        quote: Some house manager... was personally sued for $40,000 for ousting an unruly patron and he LOST. Frank, I had the Sheriff eject an unruly for me last year... a situation that occurs around 4 or 5 times in a season and is consistent with how we've handled these things over the past 17 years. The responding deputy (with less than a year on the department) didn't like the fact that I wouldn't give the unruly her money back (after having to call the cops to get her off the property), and filed a report with the county prosecutor suggesting theft of services charges against ME (I stole my own services?)! A relatively green deputy prosecutor took up the case & actully did file the charges (a misdemeanor... not civil "beef"), suggesting that I had intended from the moment this person entered my property to take her money and not show her the movie (maximum penalty, 1 year in jail & $5,000 fine). Upon retaining an attorney, the County said they would drop the charges if I would write a $15 check to the unruly. I refused, and demanded a full jury trial. About a week later, the County dropped the charges altogether, but it took 2 months, 2 court appearances and $1,000 to the lawyer to draw the line over a $15 ejection. Moral: When you're dealing with the public, ya never know! or maybe... Beware of premature ejection!  |  IP: Logged Thomas Procyk Phenomenal Film Handler Posts: 1842 From: Royal Palm Beach, FL, USA Registered: Feb 2002 posted 12-15-2003 01:04 PM                     Jack you should have countersued the county for a billion dollars on the grounds of them dictating to you how you run your private business and whom you choose to evict. But I'm no lawyer, so that may not be grounds. Actually, (and Randy may be able to help with this...) is there a way you could sue an unruly patron if they refuse to leave? Technically, they are disrupting the show and causing a negative and hostile environment for your other customers, who will undoubtedly spread the word about the "confrontation" they saw at the theater, thus hurting your business. And if they do this DURING the movie, causing such a disruption to take people out of the story, then THEY are in violation of theft of service from the entire audience. I'd like to see that. "You are charged with 398 counts of theft of service, defamation of this person's business, causing a public nuisance, and if you don't have your ticket stub, trespassing." =TMP=  |  IP: Logged Richard Greco Phenomenal Film Handler Posts: 1180 From: Plant City, FL Registered: Nov 2003 posted 12-15-2003 02:27 PM                     I'm surprised that we don't have guards with our midnight print for Tuesday. I am actually going to get a chance to run it before customers see it.  |  IP: Logged Randy Stankey Film God Posts: 6539 From: Erie, Pennsylvania Registered: Jun 99 posted 12-15-2003 04:12 PM                     I don't think you can sue somebody civially unless you can show that the individual caused documented loss to yoou or your business. (Okay, anybody can sue anybody for anything but there is no guarantee they'll be successful. ) In other words, you would have to show, for instance, that $X.00 worth of tickets and/or concession stand revenue had to be refunded due to some persons actions which he/she shouldn't have done. You had better have the refund slips to prove it, too! No, what I would do is make sure the person is prosecuted criminally first. If you are friendly with the local constabulary I can see no reason why they wouldn't "cooperate" with you on making sure this person is charged with the "appropriate" crime(s). Now, once the criminal trial is overwith it's possible to have the records of that trial used in evidence at a civil trial. If the verdict of the first trail was "guilty" you have a virtual "lock" on a favorable verdict in a civil trail. All you have to do is show evidence of your damages and put forth a reasonable explanation of how much you think you are owed. (If the law allows for punitive damages, don't forget to add them in too.) Once you make youre case the judge/jury will come up with a figure. If your case is strong enough you'll be awarded your lost money. Don't count on getting rich! It'll take at LEAST a year! Here's how I would attack the case of getting ejected from a theater if I was in the situation... Breach of contract. When you buy a ticket a contract may be (may have been) created. Money in exchange for an opportunity to view a movie. If you don't get to see your movie, the theater must make good somehow with a refund or a raincheck or something. Here's the reverse side: By purchasing a ticket to a movie you agree to abide by a reasonable set of rules for behavior. You promise not to talk loudly or disturb other people in other ways. By behiving like an idiot, YOU break the contract! Thus, you lose your opportunity to watch a movie! Out the door you go! Now, the "OUT" on this contract would be "anticipatory repudiation". If neither side is able to fulfil his end of the contract through no fault of his own the contract could be rendered null and void. All parties would give back any money if exchanged and go on their seperate ways. In other words, if the projector breaks down and you can't fix it you can get out of the contract by refunding the money. Or, if a customer presents an untorn ticket after a movie is over and can show a valid reason why he couln't have attended the movie (A car addident on the way to the show documented by a police report, Or a death in the family evidenced by an obituary from the newspaper.) they should get their money back, or at least a chance to exchange the ticket for another show. Okay... So, where's all this going? How about THIS?! If I buy a ticket at a theater to watch a movie, part of that contract is that I will be able to sit down in my chair in relative comfort WITHOUT being disturbed by some some big goons in uniforms searching me without cause. Many theaters ADVERTISE that fact on their front marquees! "Big, Comfortable Chairs! Air Conditioned Comfort!" I didn't GET to watch my movie, undisturbed in a big, comfy chair because some big, fat, hairy GOON kept trying to offend my civil rights by sticking that damn electronic WAND down my pants! Refund please! And don't forget the punitive damages for my civil rights violation!  |  IP: Logged Jack Ondracek Film God Posts: 2348 From: Port Orchard, WA, USA Registered: Oct 2002 posted 12-15-2003 05:19 PM                        Randy: Got a good laugh from that! I've always compared it to a cover charge at a bar... or admission to a sporting event. You are admitted, but your $10 does not buy you a piece of the rock. If your behavior at any of these venues is considered out of line, you risk being shown the door... and I've never heard of a situation where Security first escorts you to the boxoffice for a refund. I think that establishing a court case for an implied contractual relation would be expensive, with no sure outcome. However, having gone through what I did this Summer... I wouldn't say that someone might not try it some day! Making a case for business disruption would be difficult, since we usually manage to get the unruly off the property before they actually disrupt much more than our normally pleasant demeanour. On the "wand down my pants"! All of those events up here have been free, pre-release showings. Are they "wanding" the public, too???  |  IP: Logged Thomas Procyk Phenomenal Film Handler Posts: 1842 From: Royal Palm Beach, FL, USA Registered: Feb 2002 posted 12-16-2003 12:37 PM                     quote: All you have to do is show evidence of your damages and put forth a reasonable explanation of how much you think you are owed. Perhaps documentation that the week following the "incident" (okay, let's say it's a big deal, shouting match, thrown soda... not just a crying baby) your attendance dropped by 35% and per-cap dropped by 15% despite reports that national ticket sales were "up by 50% from last week." So if the national average went UP and your attendance DROPPED, could that be used in the case to say that the incident has hurt your business? =TMP=  |  IP: Logged Randy Stankey Film God Posts: 6539 From: Erie, Pennsylvania Registered: Jun 99 posted 12-16-2003 12:55 PM                     That'd be grabbing at straws. There's just no way to prove beyond resonable doubt that this person caused it. You'd have to show a causal link. Maybe there was a traffic jam in front of your theater so customers couldn't come to you if they wanted to? Maybe 35% of your customers just didn't feel like going to a movie today out of random chance? Now, IF there was an article in your local newspaper that said something like, "Riot at local movie theater caused by unruly patron", then you might be able to show a link to a drop in your revenue. If you could show that on nights when there are security guards in your theater attandance changes you might have a leg to stand on but it'd be a long, longshot. If the feature is free then your rectipts would have gone UP, not down. People who DIDN'T buy tickets spent money on popcorn... revenue that didn't show up at the box office that showed up at the concession stands instead! That's probably a reason why theater managers don't complain about this too much... FREE MONEY!  |  IP: Logged Joe Schmidt Expert Film Handler Posts: 172 From: Billings, Montana, USA Registered: Apr 2001 posted 12-19-2003 02:54 PM                     Depressed This was a very depressing thread to read. At times like this, I reflect upon how lucky I am to be retired long ago from this business, so many aspects of which seem to have gone completely insane. Film-Tech is a variant of deja-vu, but I presently believe that exhibition is [a] not a good business to be in, and [b] NOT a good business to be employed in. Upon reading the thread about traps, and discovering it had nothing to do with catching mice, my thought was that you put trainees through all of this stress, and upon completion of the course they are fully qualified for a part-time minimum-wage job with no benefits! Hope I don't get flamed too badly....  |  IP: Logged Frank Angel Film God Posts: 5305 From: Brooklyn NY USA Registered: Dec 1999 posted 12-20-2003 12:16 PM                        Wow, Jack -- I thought that problems like that were only theoretical scenarios that used to teach us what to watch out for. The legal department at the college had given us a few training sessions at our request to clue us in on some of the legal stuff it would be good for our staff to know about. We learned ho tricky all this legal stuff can become; we are lucky because we have the legal department to give us the benefit of their expertise. One of the things that I learned is that what seems so obviously black and white to the layman -- like, a patron sneaks in with a counterfet ticket so we have the right to drag his sorry ass out of our theatre -- unfortunatly it is anything but simple. And even when it is cut and dry, you don't want to do anything that could let them drag YOU in and out of court, which, in the end, is more costly to you in time and money than the original problem ever was.  |  IP: Logged Bruk Mogos Film Handler Posts: 19 From: USA Registered: Nov 2003 posted 12-20-2003 01:36 PM                     Frank WB is just being to ridiculous, they did the same thing in my theatre too, searching patrons bags and checking them with metal detector wands. Also they asked me to check if someone was hiding in booth , I just ignored them because I was getting really irritated with their stupid questions, after all this I had to sign some papers for security purpose.It's bunch of crap.I don't really blame the security guards because they are doing what are told to do, but this piracy stuff is just to get more found for MPAA and all those on top.  |  IP: Logged

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