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Author Topic: "Not a scratch on it" Martin Brooks Jedi Master Film Handler Posts: 900 From: Forest Hills, NY, USA Registered: May 2002 posted 11-17-2003 04:27 PM                        I agree with Brad, but the unfortunate reality is that the studios now only care about opening weekend, so they only care about how the print looks for the first show. I think I might care more about how the print looks for the first evening show.  |  IP: Logged Brad Miller Administrator Posts: 17775 From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall) Registered: May 99 posted 11-17-2003 04:44 PM                     quote: I think one problem today is that a platter system requires more attention (and work) keeping all the rollers clean and spinning besides keeping the projector clean. Not at all. Back "in the day" you didn't have kids with little to not training running the booth...you had professionals. This is also something that grates on my nerves when people proclaim that running reel to reel is better on the film than a platter. No one ever takes into account that back in the reel to reel days there was a professional running it. Platters are simply more gentle on the film.  |  IP: Logged Bill Enos Film God Posts: 2081 From: Richmond, Virginia, USA Registered: Apr 2000 posted 11-17-2003 06:10 PM                     The damage I reject more prints for is crosswise scratches caused by film running across the edge of a platter. About 80% of the prints I get have some form of this damage, not all cause for replacement, but too many. We don't run anything much less than perfect. While platters perfectly operated and attended, and maintained may be more gentle on film, platters operated by inattentive operators, and not perfectly maintained present a significantly greater opportunity for damage to occur. The latter seems to be by far the case.  |  IP: Logged Brad Miller Administrator Posts: 17775 From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall) Registered: May 99 posted 11-17-2003 06:30 PM                     Reel to reel systems not properly maintained cinch scratch the crap out of the head and tail of each reel too. I don't know why so many people have a hard time with this. It's the operator.  |  IP: Logged John Hawkinson Film God Posts: 2273 From: Cambridge, MA, USA Registered: Feb 2002 posted 11-17-2003 08:57 PM                     Very few inexperienced operators run reel-to-reel. Many inexperienced operators run platters. The fact that the technology may or may not be better or worse isn't the issue. I think it's true that platters vs. reels are an indicator of presentation quality, but that is because of the indirect relationship to operator experience. --jhawk  |  IP: Logged Scott Norwood Film God Posts: 8146 From: Boston, MA. USA (1774.21 miles northeast of Dallas) Registered: Jun 99 posted 11-17-2003 09:51 PM                        I'm not sure that I agree that changeover houses usually have more experienced operators than platter houses, and I don't know where this idea comes from. I've seen good and bad people running each setup. I do agree that a good operator will be able to put on a top-notch show with either system. Personally, I think that running a changeover booth is more fun, but in terms of actual presentation quality, the average platter booth wins if a print will be shown more than a handful of times. Platter damage usualy occurs during makeup and breakdown, which is only done at the beginning and end of a run at a platter house. Changeover houses usually cause damage due to rough film handling or poor equipment or maintenance (unmodified Goldberg motorized rewinders, misadjusted feed/takeup tension, etc.), which usually is inflicted during every show. For once-only shows and (especially) festivals, however, the second projector is extremely helpful, even if there's a platter in the same booth for longer runs.  |  IP: Logged Frank Angel Film God Posts: 5305 From: Brooklyn NY USA Registered: Dec 1999 posted 11-18-2003 01:16 AM                        quote: I'm not sure that I agree that changeover houses usually have more experienced operators than platter houses, and I don't know where this idea comes from. It comes from the fact that the very reason for platters and automation....the purpose for their existance, is that they enabled the exhibitor to either get rid of the projectionist entirely in favor of a thread jocky or at the very least, use one of him for every 10, 15, 20 screens. If changeovers could be automated and run without a projectionist handling them, the theatre owner would never have invested in platters. He didn't rip out his paid-for second machine and spend some hefty $$ to put in a platter because he was worried about which system was gentler on film. Bottom line is, no matter how gentle platters are or are not, their very nature encourage owners to use less skilled labor at lower wages; that's what invites trouble. As has been said, it's not the system. It is only r-t-r take-ups and rewinds that are not maintained properly coupled with someone who doesn't understand simply rules of film handling, that produce cinch marks. Where ever you put this dolt, there will be film damage -- platter or changeover. When a projector takeup transport is maintained properly, it is no more apt to impart wear on sprocket hole structure or scratches or cinch marks any more than a well maintained platter operated by a competent projectionist is apt to stretch polyester or chew up dozens of feet of film in a head wrap. Only difference is, the patter system is much more complex than the simple r-t-r takeup clutch, yet it is the platter transport system that the exhibitor is more apt to send up the concessions kid to be its operator. In the days when pictures ran for months and even years in first-run flagship theatres, they looked as good on the last run as they did on the first. Everyone knows the story of how SOUND OF MUSIC played for nearly 2 years in reserved seats in NYC, I believe at the Rialto on Broadway, and they never had to open the cans of the backup print. Imagine if they had FilmGuard back then! Frank  |  IP: Logged William Hooper Phenomenal Film Handler Posts: 1879 From: Mobile, AL USA Registered: Jun 99 posted 11-18-2003 06:42 AM                        Just so Ed doesn't feel like the Lone Ranger, the platter vs. changeover setup argue has raged here before, nobody's changed anyone else's mind, & opinions range from those like Brad's the platters are *easier* on film than a changeover setup, to folks who say the sytsems are even & all results are operator dependent, to those who say a changeover setup is easier on film. I'm with Ed on this one, by the way.  |  IP: Logged Bill Enos Film God Posts: 2081 From: Richmond, Virginia, USA Registered: Apr 2000 posted 11-18-2003 08:16 AM                     The same thing happened here with Sound of Music. NTI kept their 4 best operators at the Willow Lawn Theatre which was the road show house in town. After almost 2 years of 20 minute changeovers, not a mark.  |  IP: Logged Thomas Procyk Phenomenal Film Handler Posts: 1842 From: Royal Palm Beach, FL, USA Registered: Feb 2002 posted 11-18-2003 08:52 AM                     I've seen the first show of a new print on opening weekend and have been treated to anything from green scratches, black scratches, missing footage, wrinkled/chewed sections, you name it... And this was at various theaters, too. Not to mention three -- yes, three -- sneak previews at three different theaters, all brainwrapped and stopped in the middle of the show. I guess TAP's mentallity was, "If they F it up on the first show, WHO KNOWS what's down the road..." But nine times out of ten, it's not the first show that has the problem. There should be an inspection program designed to check a print that is LEAVING the theater on a Thursday night. That will really give you an idea of the theater's film handling ability or lack thereof. Could also aid in tracking good or bad prints! quote: I agree seeing a sub run house with a flawless presentation is extremely rare and impressive. You should come to our theater then! We're not completely "Flawless" but we voraciously rival all of the first-runs around here. We usually get very good prints, especially Nemo (which we're running into it's THIRD week of video release!) with only a little bit of a "glitch" at the end of the Knick Knack cartoon. (Looks like a theater chopped it off and Disney or someone re-attatched another one.) I want to find a theater that's still playing Greek Wedding since it opened. "not a scratch" on that would be somewhat impressive. =TMP=  |  IP: Logged

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