my profile | my password | search | faq & rules | forum home

» Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE   » Operations   » Film Handlers' Forum   » Note from distributor to run at another speed (Page 2)

This topic comprises 2 pages: 1  2

Author Topic: Note from distributor to run at another speed Danny Hart Film Handler Posts: 50 From: St Andrews, Scotland Registered: Nov 2000 posted 11-22-2003 08:49 AM                     I agree with Steve above - playing at 24fps would be 4% too slow (if the soundtrack was recorded at 25fps). I have a variable speed CD player, and have just listened to a couple of things 4% too slow. The difference is VERY noticeable, and I'm not pitch perfect. I'd be able to tell that difference a mile off. Just as an aside, with an analogue soundtrack, it's agreed that this would make a difference in pitch AND tempo. But, how would this difference in speed affect a digital soundtrack, being data? By the way, off topic, some radio stations (particularly commercial/pop) play alot of their music slightly faster than it should be played (only by about 2 or 3%). The idea is the music sounds "brighter" on their station than their competitors. And yes, Phil Cunningham and Aly Bain are FAB!!! Aly bain could do with a wee smile from time to time, though. They haven't performed here for a while.  |  IP: Logged Randy Stankey Film God Posts: 6539 From: Erie, Pennsylvania Registered: Jun 99 posted 11-22-2003 10:55 AM                     quote: Danny Hart: The idea is the music sounds "brighter" on their station than their competitors. Do they play the ADVERTISEMENTS 3% faster than normal? At 3% faster you get 1.8 more minutes per hour to play ads. Enough time for three or four more 30 second spots per hour! It sounds more like greed to me!  |  IP: Logged Per Hauberg Jedi Master Film Handler Posts: 883 From: Malling, Denmark Registered: Jul 2000 posted 11-22-2003 08:24 PM                        Several danish low-budget films lately have been marked: "Will run correct only at 25 fps". -Isn't this just a sign, that the films has been shot on video (they all look so, at least - dark and grainy). Wish, the producers would make up their mind: "Is this film worth the expence of real film, or should we just drop it..?" And btw: itsn't it just what happens, every time a film is transferred to video or television - from 24 to 25 ? -Wide audience never get an idea of it... Newer Kinoton projectors has a 24/25 shift button - and some very fine, old projectors has the possibility of 30. -But serious: Those producers know to little about the cinemas, they are making films for, don't they ? As standard, I do not know of other projectors than the Kinotons being able to chance speed without further alterations. Per  |  IP: Logged Manny Knowles "What are these things and WHY are they BLUE???" Posts: 4247 From: Bloomington, IN, USA Registered: Feb 2002 posted 11-23-2003 07:47 AM                     quote: Randy wrote: At 3% faster you get 1.8 more minutes per hour to play ads. Enough time for three or four more 30 second spots per hour! It sounds more like greed to me! That's *exactly* what I was thinking when I read that!  |  IP: Logged Dominic Case Expert Film Handler Posts: 131 From: Sydney NSW Australia Registered: Aug 2003 posted 11-23-2003 10:55 PM                       quote: The note stated that when run at 24 FPS, the film would not run smoothly through the projector. They could be thinking of what happens on PAL telecine. When a film is transferred at 24fps, the telecine doubles up and repeats one field (1/2 a frame) every half second, giving a just-perceptible stuttering action. That's one reason why films are transferred for TV/video at 25fps to match the PAL frame rate. Faster, higher pitch (25 for 24 is a 4% increase in frequency, whereas a semitone is 6%) but smooth action, no jitters. But there's no such jittering problem if a film projector runs fast.  |  IP: Logged Leo Enticknap Film God Posts: 7474 From: Loma Linda, CA Registered: Jul 2000 posted 11-24-2003 01:50 AM                        How would the slight speed change affect a digital track? I seem to remember that Dolby digital will 'tolerate' a 2fps speed variation from 24 in either direction. But if the projector is running a bit slow or fast how does it sync the sound playback? I suppose that in theory, you could increase or decrease the speed of the sound at the digital to analogue conversion stage without adjusting the pitch of the original (unlike with analogue, where you can't vary one without varying the other), but will it actually do this?  |  IP: Logged Ivo Noorlander Film Handler Posts: 20 From: Amsterdam, The Netherlands Registered: Jun 2002 posted 11-24-2003 09:08 AM                     Hello everybody this is my first post here. In Holland quite a few films are shot 25fps. This is not necessarily because it is shot on PAL video, as Per suggests. Pipo has been shot on (crappy) HD, so it could easily have been shot 24fps if desired. Films shot on 35mm are also frequently shot at 25fps for home video puposes, which is unfortunate, because post production houses can speed 24fps up to 25fps with pitch correction. So I guess they're just wasting money in terms of film stock by the added 4% when shooting the feature at 25fps Luckily our Vic 8 projectors can now also be changed with a switch, so for us it's no problem.  |  IP: Logged Christian Appelt Jedi Master Film Handler Posts: 505 From: Frankfurt, Germany Registered: Dec 2001 posted 11-24-2003 10:27 AM                     I had to screen many 35mm sepmag films (foreign films that had been dubbed for German TV), and the dubbing was done for 25fps PAL TV rate. When we screened those at 24fps, there was a noticeable change in certain (well-known) actor`s/speaker`s voices, so I believe that the pitch change in music should be quite noticeable. FWIW, I discussed this with two sound mixers, and they said that speeding up (like in PAL telecine) was never a source of complaint, but the 1 frame slowing down from 25fps TV films shown in cinemas at 24fps would always be noticed by composers and musicians.  |  IP: Logged Andy Muirhead Master Film Handler Posts: 323 From: Galashiels, Scotland Registered: Dec 2000 posted 11-24-2003 07:47 PM                     quote: Faster, higher pitch (25 for 24 is a 4% increase in frequency, whereas a semitone is 6%) but smooth action, no jitters. Thanks for that Dominic, I stand corrected - I was previously informed 4% translated to a semitone. That'll teach me to listen to such nonsense without thinking about it, me being a muso too! Honestly I did pass my music theory! On the subject of 24-25fps, the BBFC do state that running times for videos are 4% shorter than theatrical releases due to differing numbers of fps. Danny, New Year is coming up so Aly will be wheeled out.. how big will those bags under the eyes be this year!  |  IP: Logged David M. Dorn Film Handler Posts: 35 From: Hartford, CT USA Registered: Mar 2004 posted 03-30-2004 08:20 PM                     I will post this query here rather than start a new topic since it is directly related to 24 vs 25 fps. I noted that the manuals pages contained the manual for the Meopta 35mm projectors. Having used Meopta optical equipment in the past with favorable results, I was curious about their projectors. I read the manual and then visited their website. Both the manual and the website specs state that their projectors run a 25 frames per seconds. The acutual spec reads "Picture Fequency 25 frames . s-1". Anyone know if this is correct (and not a misprint) and if so why? Since Xenon lamps are DC I can not see 50hz/60hz shutter synch problems like you can have with a camers when using HMI lighting.  |  IP: Logged Brian Michael Weidemann Expert cat molester Posts: 944 From: Costa Mesa, CA United States Registered: Feb 2004 posted 03-31-2004 02:27 AM                        quote: And btw: itsn't it just what happens, every time a film is transferred to video or television - from 24 to 25 ? I was under the impression that 24fps film transferred to 30fps NTSC video included the duplication of every fourth frame, which is only really noticeable when you pause video and advance frame by frame. You can count it ... change, change, change, change, same frame, change, change, change, change, same frame, etc. And analog and digital sound isn't recorded at a "frame rate" that is locked to the film's original projection rate, so there will be no speeding up. Its original play time will stay consistent with the video.  |  IP: Logged Daryl C. W. O'Shea Film God Posts: 3977 From: Midland Ontario Canada (where Panavision & IMAX lenses come from) Registered: Jun 2002 posted 03-31-2004 02:35 AM                        I was under the impression that they used PAL in Denmark.  |  IP: Logged Per Hauberg Jedi Master Film Handler Posts: 883 From: Malling, Denmark Registered: Jul 2000 posted 03-31-2004 07:12 PM                        Right: Denmark is PAL country Denmark is 25fps videofilm-shit-in-cinema country Denmark is home of crap-crap-crap Dogme. While cinema owners spend their money every time dictated on doing things better, producers and distributors today only believe in cheaper is better. DVD will win soon !  |  IP: Logged

All times are Central (GMT -6:00)

This topic comprises 2 pages: 1  2

Printer-friendly view of this topic

Hop To: Select a Forum: Category: Operations -------------------- Digital Cinema Forum Film Handlers' Forum Large Format Forum Ground Level Feature Info, Trailer Attachments & REAL Credit Offsets Category: Community -------------------- Film-Yak Film Handlers' Movie Reviews The Afterlife Bob Maar's Joke-A-Thon Category: Classified -------------------- Equipment and Supplies Wanted/For Sale Help Wanted/Seeking Employment Category: System -------------------- Software Beta Testing Forum

The Film-Tech Forums are designed for various members related to the cinema industry to express their opinions, viewpoints and testimonials on various products, services and events based upon speculation, personal knowledge and factual information through use, therefore all views represented here allow no liability upon the publishers of this web site and the owners of said views assume no liability for any ill will resulting from these postings. The posts made here are for educational as well as entertainment purposes and as such anyone viewing this portion of the website must accept these views as statements of the author of that opinion and agrees to release the authors from any and all liability.