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Author Topic: Century curved gate on Model CC Steven H. Krams Film Handler Posts: 14 From: Miami, FL, USA Registered: Oct 2002 posted 12-20-2003 05:04 PM                     Here is a new slant on this problem. Century Model C or CC projectors came in two varieties. Most had a 70.6mm lens holders. In 1955 the projector was redesigned to accmodate 4 inch lenses. This lens proved to be of poor deisgn and after a few years the poor design resulted in the lens sleeve becoming worn, cocked. In addiiton the vernier focus screw developed high spots. After many years some of these actually froze up. The result was that the lens holder was not flat across the surface of the holder and so focus shift became a serious issue with this machine. It would sometimes focus well and hold focus and other times it would not depending on position and heating. Over the years as these machines came into our facilties we converted them A type frames (Sometimes referred as the model SA, SAW,DA,DAW and so on.) This required some machine shop work be done to the frame to accmodate the SA Lens holder, light shield, shutter guard, trap and gate system. The results were excellent and many of these units which we upgraded are still in service today. The last time we did this conversion for was for an 8 Plex in Manilla that had 3 machines in each booth in 1996. The result of the failed Model C with 4 inch lens holder was the evoloution of the H Frame and then the A frame. Today one can observe many changes which have been made to the main "A" frame casting so that there is not much resemlance to the original design which was discontinued when the plant plant in Long Island City moved to Lakewood New Jersey in the early 1980's. So much for History!  |  IP: Logged Lindsay Morris Expert Film Handler Posts: 233 From: Darlington, WA, Australia Registered: Sep 2002 posted 12-23-2003 04:25 AM                     Thanks everyone for the various inputs... some quite interesting reading re the evolution of the Century C and others. The last weekend sessions went well with no focus shifts that I saw or had anyone rushing into the box complaining about the focus (box is on ground level in an outdoor venue... so always plenty of lookers). Film playing was Italian Job and being in scope using the full frame I felt any problems would show readily. Even the odd subtitles across the bottom were well focussed unlike another scope print earlier on in the season which the subtitles only came into focus after some Film Guard was sprayed on the MUT feed spool. Took the studio guide blocks well out and slightly overdid the lateral roller as I had a bit of DTS roaring down the black LHS edge until I dragged that back. The Century CC I have is nothing like the CC in the manual when it comes to lens barrel etc (which is the 100mm diam type). It is almost a direct copy of the H machine after looking at the manual of which I downloaded from the manuals section. This Century is branded Westrex on the proj & soundhead door glasses but has a big label on the front clearly saying Century CC and yet the soundhead is labelled Westrex R but is EXACTLY as per the soundhead shown in the H manual. So what is it??? My best guess is that it is something in the middle of the evolution of the C to the H series that Westrex brought into this country under their own label but made by Century in USA. Bearings and gears I ordered from the C manual info all fitted perfectly. Later on in OZ Westrex bobbed up with an Australian made machine called CENTREX and there are quite a few of those about still going strong. It remains to be seen whether or not this 100mm barrel gives any trouble but focus control is very smooth and when things were going well during installation tests focus was pin sharp overall and as good as or better than the old Simplex girls it replaced. There is some variation in film stock widths which when I set it all up was quite happy with the studio side guides as set.. but! run another print and all hell broke loose if it was just a "bees knee" wider than what I had used to set things up. So just how much variation is allowed for in 35mm film stock.. John P any info on that?? See how this weekend goes with a WS film from a different lab to Italian Job. Plus a few odd trailers thrown in for good measure all from different sources. Have a great Xmas all, Lindsay  |  IP: Logged Stan Gunn Expert Film Handler Posts: 176 From: Clematis, in the hills near Melbourne Australia Registered: Aug 2000 posted 12-24-2003 07:28 PM                        Hi Lindsay. Regardles of the type of gate in a machine the most important thing is gate tension. 30 years of projection and service enginer have taught me that the obviose is most likely not the cause of the result. With a curved gate low band tension is the best, as if the tension is tight the film will pull into the centre. latral guide rollers if the spring tension is to tight can also do the same, causeing focus problems at the bottom of the screen, (plays hell with subtitles).The rollers must be perfectly alighned to the intermittant sprocket,and these days have the tension set for poly film just eneough side tension to hold the film steady. Any way call me for any info you requiere in the future. regards Stan Gunn  |  IP: Logged Lindsay Morris Expert Film Handler Posts: 233 From: Darlington, WA, Australia Registered: Sep 2002 posted 01-05-2004 03:43 AM                     Dare I say it?? Looks as though I have got rid of the shifting/popping focus problems as now after 2 weekends of screenings I have not yet seen any shifts like I had done previously. Thanks for all the advice from everyone as by sifting thru all that plus going thru the Century HH manual I have pretty well got it all sorted out. In addition I have confirmed that this branded CC machine is not really a CC but something of a hybrid with a bit of the CC like the shutter housing (round) and the big 100mm diam lens barrel from the H series.. plus the curved gate. I have seen a few of these machines here in OZ and they are certainly different to the C series shown in many of the "Picture" segments on this forum. The door is identical to the H series and the logo is Westrex and NOT Century so these machines are somewhere between the 2 series. What I have done is to: a. Taken the side runners well out so that there is quite a wide clearance between the edge of the film and the runners.. at least 1mm. b. Set the soundtrack side runner so it was dead true and in line with the gate lateral roller and made the extra clearance on the non soundtrack side which is how the Balantyne is set up with its sprung side runner. The "reference side" as described by John P. c. Over the 2 week period slowly backed off the gate tension night after night and after each adjustment went down to the front row and studied the image movement. Now the tension screws are practically backed right off and the image is quite stable. They obviously had been wound right up by whoever previously owned the machine and when they were like that you could really hear the intermittent working real hard to move the film. Now it is just a gentle purr. The lateral guide seems to still have far too much tension for poly stocks yet older acetate stuff runs thru quite flat. Short of snipping some coils off the tension spring is there any easy way to reduce that tension??? The poly film really bows and jiggles about quite violently and noisily as it goes into the gate assembly... acetate stuff just slides in with no noise and spreads the rollers and lays flat against the runners. One of the old Westrex soundheads (206A) that I have retired had a similar problem with the tiny lateral guide roller just above the fixed sound gate (one of THOSE with NO rotary stabiliser shown on a post sometime ago from an old theatre). To fix that I snipped small bits off the coil spring bit by bit until the poly film would lay flat and let the guide roller spin rather than stay stuck and develop a series of grooves which then made the film jump about and sometimes create a sort of flutter in the sound. Those old Westrex girls had HUGE flywheels and massive bronze bearings and after god knows how many years of use there is still virtually no play in those bearings. Never heard any wow.. the occasional flutter as above and the only problem was that when the motor was switched off the machine tended to run on for quite a time before it came to a stop. This could be a real cow if you had a film break and a build up inside as it just did not want to stop. Lindsay  |  IP: Logged Stan Gunn Expert Film Handler Posts: 176 From: Clematis, in the hills near Melbourne Australia Registered: Aug 2000 posted 01-05-2004 11:31 PM                        Hi Lindsay Shorten the lateral roller spring so that it doesn't affect the poly film anything else from nitrate to acetate will be no problem. Theres nothing wrong with 206s I run a pair of 208Bs with C&W EH seniour heads. All your fixs were spot on , you should now have many hours of happy screening ahead of you. Stan Gunn.  |  IP: Logged Lindsay Morris Expert Film Handler Posts: 233 From: Darlington, WA, Australia Registered: Sep 2002 posted 01-06-2004 05:14 AM                     Stan, Thanks for that... it does seem a bit crude as I thought at the time when I snipped the Westrex springs up to reduce the lateral tension. But I guess short of finding another slightly weaker spring that will be the only answer. I will give it the chop tomorrow when I go to the cinema to mow all the damn grass that grows like crazy in patches and dies back in others. Have another scope film this weekend so any focus variations will be obvious as this print is also poly. Lindsay  |  IP: Logged

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