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Topic: Poor Theatre Designs Causes Unhappy Patrons

Gordon McLeod
Film God

Posts: 9532
From: Toronto Ontario Canada
Registered: Jun 99

posted 12-18-2003 11:41 PM

if one purchases a ticket where no reserve seating is involved there is no guarentee that the front row for a specified perfomance isn;'t where you end up so the SMPTE standard shoudl be "legalay enforced" for where a general admision seat is sold [Frown]

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William Hooper
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1879
From: Mobile, AL USA
Registered: Jun 99

posted 12-18-2003 11:56 PM

This isn't new; there are many stories of big theatres after talkies covering/filling in the orchestra pit to put in a few more rows down front. The first which comes to mind is Loew's 175th.

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Warren Smyth
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 158
From: Auckland ,New Zealand
Registered: Aug 2003

posted 12-19-2003 07:58 AM

quote:
If you were stupid enough to take those front seats instead of waiting for a different show, then you deserve what you get

The problem is, viewing from the front rows in some theatres is perfectly ok, whilst from others, it may represent a nightmare. As has been stated, it depends upon the screen height to viewing distance ratio. How can you expect the audience to know at the time of ticket purchase, what this ratio is and whether the auditorium complies?

This is a consumer issue. In some countries, consumer law protects customers against paying money for goods and services which are "not marketable". It would take a test case in the courts but generally, products and services here, are deemed not to be so, if they don't meet recognized standards.

If a shop sells a loaf of bread , and it transpires it is stale, then they have committed a breech of the Sale of Goods Act. In this case, the applied standard is the period elapsed between when the bread was made, and sold. If the shop owner were to suggest in his defense, that the customer "was stupid to accept the bread instead of waiting for new stocks", the judge would not be impressed. This is not a valid excuse for, as in the case of the poor seating, it assumes knowledge on the part of the customer, which he or she cannot reasonably be expected to have.

Unfortunately, in some instances in the film industry, those who dictate the screen size relative to seating distances, lack technical knowlege. It's really time that certain sections of the industry cleaned up their act.

There is a history of regulatory control being born from a failure to apply appropriate standards. I'm sure the industry doesn't want to see that happen. Particularly as they screamed for years when projectionist licensing once prevented them from employing unskilled labour in projection rooms.

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Evans A Criswell
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1579
From: Huntsville, AL, USA
Registered: Mar 2000

posted 12-19-2003 09:26 AM

quote:
Mark if you were stupid enough to take those front seats instead of waiting for a different show, then you deserve what you get.

Mark stated that he was with some friends. I've been to many showings I wouldn't have gone to in the past because I was with friends and they chose a movie at a certain time (different theatre and time than I would have chosen by myself). Doing things with friends sometimes overrides other preferences. I think "stupid" is a bit harsh. I had to sit in the second row of ID4 (very close 2nd row about 12 to 15 feet from a 40 foot screen, at the far right side of the screen -- in fact, we were not in front of the screen until the masking widened for scope) when it came out because I was with friends and that's the only place we could grab seats, but I don't consider myself stupid for choosing to watch this movie there with my best friends at the time.

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Mark Lensenmayer
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1605
From: Upper Arlington, OH
Registered: Sep 1999

posted 12-19-2003 02:40 PM

Jonathan Crist said,

quote:
Mark if you were stupid enough to take those front seats instead of waiting for a different show, then you deserve what you get. Its not like it was the only theatre showing the picture or the only scheduled show. I would wager that LOTR3 will be on some screen somewhere in your area for at least the next three months. If for some reason you simply could not wait then you have no gounds for complaint.

Had I been alone, or just with my wife, I would not have stayed. But, I was with friends who I see only rarely, and that was more important to me than where I sat. I normally arrive very early or attend only matinees where I can get the seat of my choice. Wait for another show? It was already 8:20 on a weeknight. Next show at 11:30 and wife leaves for her job as an elementary school principal at 7:00 AM? I don't think so. Also, there is a certain excitement to going on the opening night.

I don't believe any business should harm its patrons. Check the standards and recommendations, and they say 35 vertical degrees is the MAXIMUM angle of comfort. This theatre was almost 60 degrees. I should not have to literally suffer as a result of poor design. I'm sure this was not the intention of the theatre architect, as they were doing their job to cram as many seats into a room with a lot of problems.

BTW, this is a THX approved theatre. THX standards I have read recognize the 35 degree limit, but do not mandate it.

I will formally complain about this, but in writing to the managing director, a gentleman I know and respect. He needs to know about this as I live in a very competitive film market (AMC, MARCUS, REGAL, CINEMARK and some new competition coming soon), and customers can easily go to other places. Someone ending up in those seats in likely never to return.

Actually, though, I did have a good time. I enjoyed being with my friends, and I enjoyed to movie. And I don't consider that to be stupid.

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Gordon McLeod
Film God

Posts: 9532
From: Toronto Ontario Canada
Registered: Jun 99

posted 12-19-2003 06:23 PM

There is nothing stopping them from putting in these seats and there is nothing in the THX design specs stopping those rows being present
In most cases they are there for the house allowance and rarely used
I guess if one wants better seats get there early

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Mark Lensenmayer
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1605
From: Upper Arlington, OH
Registered: Sep 1999

posted 12-19-2003 08:08 PM

Gordon said:

quote:
I guess if one wants better seats get there early

Right, Gordon...you are absolutely right. OR, stay home and wait for the DVD. I seem to be waiting on the DVD more and more often, too.

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Paul G. Thompson
The Weenie Man

Posts: 4718
From: Mount Vernon WA USA
Registered: Nov 2000

posted 12-19-2003 09:24 PM

I remember when Cinema 5 in Mount Vernon was built. In No.2 auditorium the front row of seats was about 8 feet from the screen. Supposedly, it was done for a seat count.

When the new owners took over, that was one of the first things they did....ripped them out. I enjoyed that. I lead the crew that ripped them out. As soon as a new load of Irwin Citations and rockers arrived, we re-seated the entire auditorium. More leg room and much less seats. The customers loved it. That was the first re-seating jobs I ever ramroded. It turned out beautiful!

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Phil Hill
I love my cootie bug

Posts: 7595
From: Hollywood, CA USA
Registered: Mar 2000

posted 12-19-2003 09:36 PM

Steve and Gordon are right on target about theatre design/seating. [thumbsup]

As John P. said, the best place is 2-screen-heights back... For me, the more close-up seats there are, the more that are availalbe in the "good" seat area cuz of the people that choose the bad ones! [Big Grin]

>>> Phil

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Gordon McLeod
Film God

Posts: 9532
From: Toronto Ontario Canada
Registered: Jun 99

posted 12-20-2003 07:56 AM

Mark said "Right, Gordon...you are absolutely right. OR, stay home and wait for the DVD"
It is unrealistic to expect a theatre owner to pay for wasted space that 98% the time is unoccupied
HVAC costs are based on room volume
Rent is by the sq foot
Seat Allowance is based on number of seats
The figures from Nato show that on average NorthAmerican theatres have less than a 30% occupancy rate per year
So those seats actually make or break the profitablility of many complexs
rant end enjoy the dvd

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Mark Lensenmayer
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1605
From: Upper Arlington, OH
Registered: Sep 1999

posted 12-20-2003 01:30 PM

Gordon,

My writing clarity sure has been slipping lately. I wasn't being sarcastic. I do agree with you, and I sympathize with the exhibitors. I haven't stopped going to film, and I will still go, and yes, I'll go to the Arena Grand. And I'll encourage others to go there.

I do think I need to alert the management. I heard comments from people sitting behind me that they would never come back because of this unpleasant experience.

One thing the management COULD have done at no cost would be to ask the audience to move to the center. There were numerous single seats. I've been to many screenings where this was done. Most people understand and will cooperate. My group would have easily been able to split up into groups of 2-3.

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