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Topic: Putting together films with clear tape?

Carl Martin
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1424
From: Oakland, CA, USA
Registered: Feb 2002

posted 05-23-2004 03:45 AM

i feel directly on the roll of film for the splice. my index finger rides along the outside top edge and as the splice approaches i feel it every revolution. it gets more and more noticeable until it passes. when i don't feel the splice anymore, i slow to a halt. that was actually my interpretation of brad's tip, and it works pretty well.

usually i overshoot just a little when slowing down, so i manually backtrack a couple revolutions, cupping the film as brad suggests.

carl

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Joe Redifer
You need a beating today

Posts: 12859
From: Denver, Colorado
Registered: May 99

posted 05-23-2004 05:12 AM

I realize that this print is already built, but next time, mark the reel edges while the film is still on the reel. Put a piece of artists tape on the inside of the reel flange, and with a Sharpie mark how full the reel is. Then on breakdown, you can see the mark as the reel spins. As you get close, you slow down and there's your splice. Can't lose.

Since you've never broken down a print with clear tape before, it's gonna be really really really hard. I recommend suicide. Suicide is usually a good answer and you won't have to worry about finding those splices. [Smile]

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Thomas Procyk
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1842
From: Royal Palm Beach, FL, USA
Registered: Feb 2002

posted 05-23-2004 11:06 AM

UGH!!! I've worked at a place that FORBID (ferbode?) using clear tape, and used solid yellow. Their reason? "It's easier to break down. With clear tape it's harder to break down and takes longer."

OH FUCKING PLEASE!!!!! [Mad]

Are you building the print to be able to break it down faster, or are you building the print to PRESENT IT TO AN AUDIENCE???

If you work at a functioning theater that charges people to watch the movies, I assume the latter is what's intended. So why am I forced to see a blank frame and hear a THUD (or have the digital drop out) because some jackass popcorn jockey in the booth wants to get out 10 miuntes sooner six Thursdays from now?

Okay. Now that I'm calm, maybe I can help.

Everyone so far has had very good suggestions, such as artist's tape on the top of the print, marking the reel itself (on top of masking tape!!), and essentially FEELING for the splice instead of just looking for it. Remember, you're not SUPPOSED to see a clear splice. That's why it's preferred.

Also take into consideration this: When you look at the print on the platter, it's not one continuous roll. You can actually see the different shades of the different reels. I usually get a good angle when breaking down so the light hits the top of the print and I can see the shades. When it's getting close to the next shade, I slow down and start to feel for the splice.

The only problem with this would be lab splices, where the shade of the reel changes mid-way. But if your theater uses yellow tape, I highly doubt they remove lab splices, so you shouldn't confuse these with yours. (Especially since lab splices are in the middle of a scene 90% of the time, and reel changes are at scene changes.) Oh, and lab splices are glued/cemented/ultrasonic. (just a "bumpy" line, not tape)

Good luck!
=TMP=

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Bill Enos
Film God

Posts: 2081
From: Richmond, Virginia, USA
Registered: Apr 2000

posted 05-23-2004 12:49 PM

Todd, mark'em any way you find convenient, paint pens, shoe polish, whatever. If you daon't do it, somebody else will. I run second run with us getting many films off the truck directly from some first run. Almost every print is visibly marked with something. Add to the list of invisible on the film stuff the dye that becomes visible in UV light. Unless your booth is unusually bright, a 15 watt blacklight fluorescent makes it jump out at you, leaves nothing visible on the film so you can put on as much as you need. You guys who agonize over what tape somebody used or something visible on the edge of a splice apparently don't have enough to do or don't work in the real world. In second run we see so much of it that it is plain that it simply doesn't matter. i've found it is extremely rare that reel splice marking has had any effect whatsoever.

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Brad Miller
Administrator

Posts: 17775
From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall)
Registered: May 99

posted 05-23-2004 03:29 PM

quote: Bill Enos
mark'em any way you find convenient, paint pens, shoe polish, whatever.

WHAT? YOU ARE ADVOCATING THIS??? Clearly all the theaters around you suck to high hell and back and you have never received a properly cared for print.

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Todd Cornwall
Film Handler

Posts: 91
From: Madison, WI
Registered: Feb 2004

posted 05-23-2004 03:59 PM

Calm.....Calm...I would never mark the print with anything. I may not have posted much here, but I've been around long enough to read a lot of tips and forum messages. Have no fear, I will use clear...and like it.
[Cool]

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Kyle McEachern
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 165
From: San Francisco, CA
Registered: Feb 2004

posted 05-23-2004 05:28 PM

quote: Bill Enos
You guys who agonize over what tape somebody used or something visible on the edge of a splice apparently don't have enough to do or don't work in the real world.

Or perhaps they just care about the presentation that they give, and are willing to put in the extra few minutes required to ensure that they do. Not sure what kind of statement you're trying to make with that "real world" comment -- they work in the world of projectionists/exhibitors who give a crap about what they put on their screen, not just whether they have the right number of ads and that the movie is 'good enough'. Which world do you work in?

quote: Bill
In second run we see so much of it that it is plain that it simply doesn't matter. i've found it is extremely rare that reel splice marking has had any effect whatsoever.

The only way that this statement is true is if you have lower presentation standards than those that are complaining about this type of thing. 'any effect whatsoever' is something that's very specific to who is viewing it. Sure, a 90-year-old grandma might not notice a jump or a bit of a black mark, or a little pop in the sound, but if your goal is ensuring the highest possible presentation with as few distractions as possible - yes, these things *do* make a difference. Nobody's going to be perfect all the time with their application of things of this nature, and it will be noticeable to those who pay attention to these things.

quote: Todd Cornwall
Have no fear, I will use clear...and like it.

That's the spirit!

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Josh Kirkhart
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 165
From: Austin/Houston, TX, USA
Registered: Nov 2001

posted 05-23-2004 06:22 PM

If your splicer is well maintained and set properly, no splice should be more seen than the next, whether using Clear or Yellow, even that red stuff. DO NOT USE OPAQUE, stuff shouldn't be made!!!

The only determining factor, Is this going to play in a SDDS theatre. yellow tape and red tape usually have two different spaces in between the edge color. one is nothing between the edgemarks and the other is a line or a line protruding from the edgeline on each side. Obviously use the section with nothing over the printed area of the film. The only thing those lines should be covering is the very edge of the SDDS track.

If your playing in sdds, when building, mark with a fine point sharpie inbetween the sprocket holes on the non-sountrack side, then use clear splicing tape, this will differenciate the reel changes and the removed factory splices, which you obviously won't mark. Hell, you could do this if all you use is clear. and there will be no smearing or loss o the mark when Film-Guarding.

Most important thing is a Maintained, Properly set Splicer.

end rant

As far as finding Splices, a mix of Gloves, looking at the print for shades of reels, and not trying to be a speed demon you should need no extra help.

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Randy Stankey
Film God

Posts: 6539
From: Erie, Pennsylvania
Registered: Jun 99

posted 05-23-2004 08:57 PM

quote: Bill Enos

If you daon't do it, somebody else will.

I try to do things as well as I can and I require my Work Study kids to do things as well as they can too. But, do you know how many times I think, "Dammitt all to hell! Why should I waste my time!?"

On the average 6-reel print that I build up there is usually a baseball sized pile of junk left over...

Crappy masking tape that I had to peel off.
Beat up frames at the ends of reels.
Strings of accordion folded "ID frames" that have been chopped and respliced.
Damaged film that I had to splice out.
Cue tapes that are never taken off. Sometimes layer upon layer.
Layer upon layer of yellow splicing tape that's never peeled off.

Literally a pile of junked film as big as a baseball!
I (and my workers) spend a LOT of time fixing up this crappy film. Sometimes I wonder, "Waht's the fucking use?!"

How much would a company charge to repair, clean, lubricate and inspect a print like the way I do? I'd really like to know because, some day, I'm going to get pissed off and blow my stack and call up the company to say, "Either you send me a clean print or I'm sending YOU a bill for my film repair services!"

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Nicole Halper
Film Handler

Posts: 47
From: Plano, Texas, USA
Registered: Mar 2004

posted 05-23-2004 09:51 PM

I agree entirely with brad's original method of finding the splices. All we use is clear at my theatre, and that method works every time. I remember being taught how to properly break down on my first night in booth, and I don't believe any other tape would take less time.
Honestly, if I can manage this (mind you I can almost guarantee that I am younger that the rest of you)- then anyone should be able to! [Cool]

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Steve Kraus
Film God

Posts: 4094
From: Chicago, IL, USA
Registered: May 2000

posted 05-23-2004 10:30 PM

Stop boasting, you also said you're thankful for DLP! [evil]

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Todd Cornwall
Film Handler

Posts: 91
From: Madison, WI
Registered: Feb 2004

posted 05-23-2004 10:33 PM

I'm sure thats true, just remember, you were shown how to do it with clear tape, its all you know, of course its easy. Once you've used colored tape, then go to clear...its a different story. I've never had to feel for splices before, I could easily see them coming. I dont anticipate that clear tape will be a big problem anymore, so I'm ok with it. It will take a few weeks to get used to it, but I WILL get used to it.

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Mark J. Marshall
Film God

Posts: 3188
From: New Castle, DE, USA
Registered: Aug 2002

posted 05-23-2004 11:03 PM

Good for you, Todd! Welcome aboard! [Smile]

In a couple of weeks, you'll be ready to answer the next guy who asks this question! [Big Grin]

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Jack Ondracek
Film God

Posts: 2348
From: Port Orchard, WA, USA
Registered: Oct 2002

posted 05-24-2004 12:33 AM

Gotta admit... I saw my first tape splicers in booths that only used colored tape, and I followed that line of thinking for some time... drive-in... indoor... it didn't matter. I HATED the blip in the picture when the splice ran through, but accepted it as a matter of "progress".

Then, I went to work in Seattle.

It's amazing how fast your perceptions of what a good presentation looks like can change. Still, it wasn't easy. OK... indoor house, clear tape. Drive-in... colored. Who cares?

Of course, after actually trying it, you become a convert very quickly. It's like the first time you put a FilmGuarded print through a drive-in machine. At the size we blow things up, dirt looks like big hunks of cow [bs]

... not a pretty picture.

So, take a deep breath and give this a try. You'll swear by it in no time, not to mention getting smily faces from Joe. Finding the splices is no big deal. As Brad says, you can feel the tape going by. You can almost always see the reel bands on the platter, so you have a pretty good idea a splice is coming (studio splices can muck this up, though).

PS... we no longer carry colored tape, or markers of any kind around here. It all went the way of our WD-40 cans!

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Bill Enos
Film God

Posts: 2081
From: Richmond, Virginia, USA
Registered: Apr 2000

posted 05-24-2004 01:01 AM

Damn, that never fails to get everybody riled up, and that's at least the third time I've posted the same comments. Gets 'em every time. No, I don't advocate applying crap allover the last 20 feet and don't put on anything on an unmarked print than the UV reflective stuff, which I seldom have to use. There is no colored or white tape in the booth either--it has no purpose.

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