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Author Topic: Your Dream Booth Brad Miller Administrator Posts: 17775 From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall) Registered: May 99 posted 07-30-2004 06:44 PM                     On the PK60D, eh? Oh yeah, you're doing your homework. Besides I never said YOU should upgrade. Remember that line from The Matrix? "Ignorance is bliss."  |  IP: Logged Matthew Jaro Film Handler Posts: 74 From: Gaithersburg, MD, USA Registered: Jul 2003 posted 07-30-2004 06:51 PM                        Brad -- I edited my reply.  |  IP: Logged Brad Miller Administrator Posts: 17775 From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall) Registered: May 99 posted 07-30-2004 07:08 PM                     You're still missing my point about the electronic intermittents in my PK60Ds.  |  IP: Logged Ken Lackner Phenomenal Film Handler Posts: 1907 From: Atlanta, GA, USA Registered: Sep 2001 posted 07-30-2004 07:47 PM                     I have edited my post to reflect why I have chosen the equipment I have.  |  IP: Logged Richard Fowler Film God Posts: 2392 From: Ft. Lauderdale, FL, USA Registered: Jun 2001 posted 07-30-2004 08:31 PM                     As we beat in some education since this creates a good comsumer The Kinoton D series has a mechanical intermittent. The syncronous motor is made by PAPST one of the world's largest manufacturers of motors. In the D it is controlled by an invertor kit for smooth ramp up and down and speed ( one or more )selection. Kinoton builds all of their equipment over the same basic parts....in the E electronic intermittent projector the same PAPST motor drives everything except the intermittent. This motor is also used by another projection manufacturer. How many motor types have Simplex and Century gone through since their pre and post War World II debut....nothing last forever...there is alway an "upgrade" / conversion kit if the marketplace needs warrant . Bauer parts are available from Kinoton and their are several speciality companies making upgrades. Kinoton PK60D expensive vs the XL....factoring the additional features built-in to the PK60D, we only have the weak U.S. dollar to make a noticable difference in price..........  |  IP: Logged Brad Miller Administrator Posts: 17775 From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall) Registered: May 99 posted 07-30-2004 08:39 PM                     Awwwwwww Richard, you spoon fed it to him!!! I was going to make him actually READ the website to find out the electronic intermittent in the PK60D was mechanical. Personally I have worked with a reasonably wide variety of equipment in the projection room. Simplex Standard/E7/XL/3570, Century SA/C/JJ, Victoria 5/9/10, Christie P35/P35GPS, etc and nothing...and I do mean nothing provides the kind of onscreen image projector-wise as a Kinoton. This is a flat out hands down clear winner. Even floor staff has seen a difference!!! Current example, I am removing Simplex XL variety projector heads and replacing them with PK60D units. Even though the Simplex heads put out what most everyone would call a "rock steady image", the Kinotons are that much better. Managers, corporate personnel, floor staff and even customers have noticed. It's especially easy to see when you can walk between two identically equipped auditoriums, one with a Simplex and one with a Kinoton. Given the price difference, there is absolutely no excuse for anyone to not go with a Kinoton projector head. Lamphouses, again a pretty wide variety. Probably all makes of Strong at one point or another, a few different Cinemeccanica models, Xetron, Christie, Kinoton, Big Sky, CFS (the worst lamphouse ever), ORC (mine as well be a CFS), etc. Hands down the Christie SLC beats all. The only lamphouses I have found do a good job is Super Lume X (but there is a hot spot), the Xetrons that we had at Northpark I & II in Dallas, the current model from Neumade and Kinoton. Still though, the SLC has everyone beat. Platters. Well, there are only 2. Christie AW3 hands down. Good runner up is the SPECO LP270. (I would consider the ST200 from Kinoton if they would fix all of the foolish goofs in the design which have been discussed elsewhere on the forums.) Everything else on the market right now is shit. Yes, pure shit. It's junk platters like CFS Super platters and the crap from Strong/Potts that gives platters a bad name. Automation is hands down the Pennywise CA21 (sold under various different companies, such as Kinoton EMK1...but without custom programmability which kills part of it's usefulness). There are no second runners up unless you want a super simple automation that does almost nothing. In that case Component Engineering's TA10 seems to do nicely. Whatever you do though, stay away from Strong's automation! Trust me, it's cheaper to spray some water on a Mogwai to get the same effect. Sound...Dolby CP650. I would be interested in playing with a Panastereo, but haven't had a good opportunity and cost-wise the CP650 does everything it needs to for 99% of all theaters. Plus I want Dolby Digital, not dts for the multitude of reasons that have been discussed elsewhere. Going SRD with a Panastereo jacks the price up making the CP650 the winner. Amplifiers...QSC DCA line all the way. Speakers...JBL exclusively (although I am intrigued at the new QSC line). Screens...Harkness!!! If you want an amazing image, go Harkness. Lenses...Schneider is the best. An acceptable alternative is ISCO lenses, but I find they tend to kill the contrast in their quest for the ultimate transmission of light through the lens (which also seems to tone down the colors a little bit too). I like the colors vivid, the blacks BLACK and the whites bright enough to burn the retinas.  |  IP: Logged Matthew Jaro Film Handler Posts: 74 From: Gaithersburg, MD, USA Registered: Jul 2003 posted 07-30-2004 08:48 PM                        OK --- sorry I missed the point. No wonder I couldn't find the model "D". I was looking at the electronic intermittant models. Is there really so much difference bewtween mechanical intermittants to justify the price difference? Has anyone done actual stability measurements? Is it worth having the electronic intermittants? Are the shutters electronic or standard blades? You haven't answered my question about the SRD reader. Also, Brad you should really consider a three blade shutter. I see Kinoton makes them for the model "D". Don't worry about the contrast issue. I certainly haven't noticed any difference (but then again, I think the XLs are steady). You should try it on one machine as an experiment. You'll have to double your lamp wattage, but it is the single best thing I did for enhancing the image.  |  IP: Logged Brad Miller Administrator Posts: 17775 From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall) Registered: May 99 posted 07-30-2004 09:03 PM                     I've nothing against a 3 bladed shutter and in fact am all for them. However for the typical cinema it is not an option. I will not sacrifice screen brightness for flicker reduction. So if I can't get the kind of light I want on a given size screen with a 6K lamp and 3 bladed shutter, it's not going to happen. (I am looking into equipping a future theater complex with all 6K lamps and putting 3 bladed shutters in the smaller auditoriums though.) I also don't know who started the whole "3 bladed shutters kill contrast" nonsense. Not true. quote: Matthew Jaro I'm not saying that Kinotons aren't great projectors, (probably the best on the market) but only whether the large price difference is justified. As regards to their SRD reader what would be the advantage over a Cat 700 reader? I get fairly low error rates. Besides, the Dolby error correcting codes should correct most errors, rendering the sound virtually identical. Are the frames read more than three times? If so, would this make a difference? First, check the pricing before posting things like that. If you go buy yourself a Simplex and a Dolby penthouse reader, you will spend MORE than buying a Kinoton with their SRD reader. Plus you get a better projector and a better SRD reader by going the intelligent route of Kinoton. The cat700 readers do a nice job. No need to "upgrade". You wouldn't notice enough of a difference to put any money into it. The Kinoton still tracks them better though.  |  IP: Logged Matthew Jaro Film Handler Posts: 74 From: Gaithersburg, MD, USA Registered: Jul 2003 posted 07-30-2004 09:19 PM                        Brad --- I was thinking of three blade shutters for your screening room. Sam Chavez made the comment about contrast. Since I got the CAT 700s, DA-20 and Simplex equipment used, there certainly would be a great price difference. Anyway, I was thinking of the price for the electronic intermittant models. Sorry. I don't know why I assumed you had the electronic intermittants.  |  IP: Logged Richard Fowler Film God Posts: 2392 From: Ft. Lauderdale, FL, USA Registered: Jun 2001 posted 07-30-2004 09:34 PM                     The E series forte is in the multi-format machines or large screens. The laptop software program allows you to "tighten up" the steadiness on the intermittent to the point that from the third row seat on a 50+ foot screen the image "is" painted on the screen The remaining weak spot is print quality. The E shutters run continiously and sensors time the "very fast" electronic intermittent to pull when the blade is in position to block the aperture. The D for most cinemas is more than adequate. XL has been around for 54 + years, enough hardware to take care of the used market until the PK-60's hit the "vintage" market in 2044  |  IP: Logged Michael Schaffer "Where is the Boardwalk Hotel?" Posts: 4143 From: Boston, MA Registered: Apr 2002 posted 07-30-2004 09:43 PM                        Why do you prefer the SLC console? In my experience, you get more and more even illumination out of a Kinoton console with a lamp one size below that of an SLC. I also like that in the Kinoton, everything is more accessible, so they are much faster to repair. An exception would be the igniter which is quicker to replace on the SLC, while on the Kinoton, it is on a board under the lamp which takes a little longer to exchange. But then you can quickly change components on the board because it is open. Of course, you can change components in the Christie igniter as well, so it all doesn't make a huge difference. What I mean here is general serviceability. Some parts of the power supply are also hard to reach. Typically failing parts like the diodes are quicker to reach, test and replace in the IREM rectifier. Just to piss those off who have acquired enough practice and a quick working strategy, on the more recent SLCs, Christie have decided to place the surge arrestor board across the diode leads on the main TB. Also, the lamp foxus assembly is much more solid and precise in the Kinoton lamphouse. Even when you go without the horrible motorized focus assembly in the SLC, it is flimsier and less precise. The lamp often changes its horizontal or vertical position while moving through the focus. I hate that. It is also possible to achieve a good lamp focus with a little practice, but it is not quite as precise as with the Kinoton consoles. BTW, what is a Mogwai? And what does spraying water on it do?  |  IP: Logged Steve Guttag We forgot the crackers Gromit!!! Posts: 12814 From: Annapolis, MD Registered: Dec 1999 posted 07-30-2004 09:55 PM                     Well I was going to post a photo I have the AFI/Silver booth #1...it has 5 projectors in all...one D-Cinema (Barco DP50), two 35/70s (Kinoton FP-75ES) and two 35/16s (Kinoton FP-38ES)...I don't have the picture at home so no post...sorry. If it isn't my dream booth...it is pretty darn close. In truth, I don't think any one piece of equipment in any category is so above reproach that I wouldn't like a little of someone elses features mixed in or perhaps to loose an undesireable feature. With any piece of equipment that has had a bit of a production run you are going to find fans of that equipment, by definition. I don't like anyone's console if I'm trying to get the best light. I'm not a big fan of the Kinoton method of hanging the lamphouse off the back of the column idea either. I like a separate adjustable lamphouse table. I don't think anyone can achieve the "hands down" award since we all have our preferences. I will say I have put Christie xenon lamps up head-to-head (same complex, same wattage, same equipment) against most other brands of lamps and they have never lost in the light output, long lasting and overall cost/hour category (so long as you change them when they show a demonstrated need, not based on a fixed number of hours). Though I have had some 5K and 6K lamps be a bit flickery. Steve  |  IP: Logged Paul Mayer Oh get out of it Melvin, before it pulls you under! Posts: 3836 From: Albuquerque, NM Registered: Feb 2000 posted 07-31-2004 12:32 AM                        For Thomas, the photo I posted is of the booth at the AMPAS Samuel Goldwyn Theater in Beverly Hills, CA. I used to visit the place quite frequently when I lived there and was a member of the SMPTE Hollywood Section. Also used to know one of their engineers, the late great Tony Witzel, Jr. His father Tony Sr. and I were flying buddies for many years, and even after we both quit flying and moved to SoCal, continued to get together for weekly lunches. Small world. Some links to technical specs: http://www.oscars.org/theaterops/sgt.html http://www.oscars.org/theaterops/technicalinfo.html  |  IP: Logged Andrew McCrea Jedi Master Film Handler Posts: 645 From: Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada Registered: Nov 2000 posted 07-31-2004 01:20 AM                        Well, some may disgaree with this, but... AUTOMATIONS: CineQ Kinoton EMK1 LAMPHOUSES/CONSOLES: Super Lume-X, 80 Neumade Xetron Maxi-Light I Xebex Hi-Beam, Supersol PROJECTORS: Victoria 5, 8 Century JJ Strong Simplex Millennium PR2000 PLATTERS: Potts 3-deck Kinoton ST 200 E, ST 400 E FAVOURITE COMBINATION: CineQ Automation (with some features edited/improved) Neumade Xetron Maxi-Light I Console Strong Simplex Millennium (PR2000) Projector Kinoton ST 400 E Platter Well, that's it, but really, I think VIC 8s and Xebex lamphouses (although no longer made) are a good combination...  |  IP: Logged Brad Miller Administrator Posts: 17775 From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall) Registered: May 99 posted 07-31-2004 01:32 AM                     I'm curious as to why you think that is such a great combination Andrew? Surely you have your reasons.  |  IP: Logged

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