my profile | my password | search | faq & rules | forum home

» Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE   » Operations   » Film Handlers' Forum   » twists in film (Page 2)

This topic comprises 2 pages: 1  2

Author Topic: twists in film Brad Miller Administrator Posts: 17775 From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall) Registered: May 99 posted 09-12-2004 01:54 PM                     Yes Steve, misleading...because you never gave emulsion out exclusitivity AND you never tried it with polyester. Again, you confessed to this before in the chat room.  |  IP: Logged Steve Guttag We forgot the crackers Gromit!!! Posts: 12814 From: Annapolis, MD Registered: Dec 1999 posted 09-12-2004 02:17 PM                     Not misleading Brad...I have checked on emulsion out winding though not exclusivity except on platters...whereas emulsion-in winding was definately superior to S-winds with emulsion out storage. Like you, I'm constantly checking on improving projection methods. If I saw emulsion out winding on reels to improve the show, I'd be all for it...I've only seen the contrary. With platters I used to run track-down...I prefer track up now and that did switch around polyester time...less problems and less damage overall. The fact comes back to...regardless of base curl....with emulsion-in wind, you are placing the emulsion in a relaxed state and then stretching it for projection...emulsion out winding you are stretching the emulsion and then hoping to have it compress evenly on projection...particulalry on the inner wraps of a reel...again, it is not the same issue with platters were even the smallest rings are around 10-inches. Steve  |  IP: Logged Brad Miller Administrator Posts: 17775 From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall) Registered: May 99 posted 09-12-2004 02:38 PM                     If only every print on reels that was wound emulsion in I have handled wasn't stretched, twisted and curled, I might be able to buy that. You still need to do some exclusive emulsion out winding on polyester though. Even back in the day when I would wind film emulsion in on an S wind, the film doesn't seem to like being constantly flipped back and forth between winding orientation. Indeed exclusive emulsion in is better than an S wind, but moreso exclusive emulsion out is better than exclusive emulsion in, and with that...your post is still misleading because you haven't really tried it yet.  |  IP: Logged Steve Guttag We forgot the crackers Gromit!!! Posts: 12814 From: Annapolis, MD Registered: Dec 1999 posted 09-12-2004 02:58 PM                     Brad, the vast majority of the time (greater than 99%) of an S-wind's life is in the emulsion-out orientation...only for the breif period after projection but before rewinding is it in the emulsion-in orientation. In your platter threading recommendations, you recommend that the emulsion be towards the rollers (with a few exceptions due to sillienss in threading)...this would put the emulsion in a "flipping" situation yet you don't find it detremental there...why? Because it is brief. Steve  |  IP: Logged Brad Miller Administrator Posts: 17775 From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall) Registered: May 99 posted 09-12-2004 03:07 PM                     Yes Steve, it would be just as brief as having the film make various turns inside a projector. Also, not everyone rewinds the film immediately after projection. Most changeover booths I have worked the reels were stored tails out (against what seemed like common sense to me). Still, I will say it again, until such time as you have tested exclusive emulsion out on reels, you really cannot make such claims. Should I repeat it another time?  |  IP: Logged Steve Guttag We forgot the crackers Gromit!!! Posts: 12814 From: Annapolis, MD Registered: Dec 1999 posted 09-12-2004 04:49 PM                     Sure go ahead...if it makes you feel better. Emulsion-In on reels still wins hands down for me. It doesn't bother me in the least that you have found different results in Texas. Steve  |  IP: Logged Brad Miller Administrator Posts: 17775 From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall) Registered: May 99 posted 09-12-2004 04:55 PM                     I haven't found different results, you haven't tested emulsion out. This really would be like me saying "a Smart Mod 5 sounds much better than a Panastereo". Well, I haven't heard a Panastereo yet, so how can I claim that??? Same thing Mr. Steve.  |  IP: Logged Steve Guttag We forgot the crackers Gromit!!! Posts: 12814 From: Annapolis, MD Registered: Dec 1999 posted 09-12-2004 05:23 PM                     The films I've looked at with emulsion out wind only have them emulsion-in for the brief period the film was on the take up reel (less than 1-hour per show...often less than 20-minutes...is your claim that amount of time sets up the problem? All of set ups evaluated store their film in the rewound state, emulsion-out...I don't buy your "haven't tested it yet" claim. Steve  |  IP: Logged Gordon McLeod Film God Posts: 9532 From: Toronto Ontario Canada Registered: Jun 99 posted 09-12-2004 05:46 PM                     I have always found emulsion in is the best even with polester stock At the old albion theatre we had in the large house two vic10's who's payout clutch was a ratchet design and it would only turn counter clockwise in the smaller theatre the vic8's would turn either direction so they ran clockwise both had 4K xebex lamphouses on them and the emulsion in always had less focus issues When a platter (ORC) was installed that same orientation was followed on each screen and the focus was always more stable emulsion in  |  IP: Logged Brad Miller Administrator Posts: 17775 From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall) Registered: May 99 posted 09-12-2004 06:08 PM                     Steve, I am saying...again...that I agree with you on this... Exclusive emulsion in is better than S winding. However I am also telling you this based upon my findings... Exclusive emulsion out is better than exclusive emulsion in. You're a smart guy. Why don't you understand what I am saying? The fact of the matter is you have never tried winding exclusive emulsion out on reels, so you have no business claiming that one way is better until such time that you have done reasonable testing. If you still don't get it, I'll get others to reword it until the time comes you get my point.  |  IP: Logged Peter Mork Expert Film Handler Posts: 181 From: Newton, MA, USA Registered: Jun 2002 posted 10-15-2004 12:11 AM                     Test results are in (see my last post on first page). After 30 days, film wound on a platter soundtrack-up and down (or emulsion-out and in, if you will): both ways still curl emulsion inward when pinched. Ran film on Brenkert, Century and Simplex projectors. No visible difference in focus between the two sections. Conclusion: Wind it either way - matters not.  |  IP: Logged David Favel Jedi Master Film Handler Posts: 764 From: Ashburton, New Zealand Registered: Feb 2002 posted 10-15-2004 07:19 PM                     quote: Tommie Evans I'm guessing that the cinemeccanica platter loads to film onto the platter fairly tight, where as the christie takes-up fairly loosely. Actually I find the reverse.  |  IP: Logged

All times are Central (GMT -6:00)

This topic comprises 2 pages: 1  2

Printer-friendly view of this topic

Hop To: Select a Forum: Category: Operations -------------------- Digital Cinema Forum Film Handlers' Forum Large Format Forum Ground Level Feature Info, Trailer Attachments & REAL Credit Offsets Category: Community -------------------- Film-Yak Film Handlers' Movie Reviews The Afterlife Bob Maar's Joke-A-Thon Category: Classified -------------------- Equipment and Supplies Wanted/For Sale Help Wanted/Seeking Employment Category: System -------------------- Software Beta Testing Forum

The Film-Tech Forums are designed for various members related to the cinema industry to express their opinions, viewpoints and testimonials on various products, services and events based upon speculation, personal knowledge and factual information through use, therefore all views represented here allow no liability upon the publishers of this web site and the owners of said views assume no liability for any ill will resulting from these postings. The posts made here are for educational as well as entertainment purposes and as such anyone viewing this portion of the website must accept these views as statements of the author of that opinion and agrees to release the authors from any and all liability.