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This topic comprises 3 pages: 1 2 3
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Author
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Topic: Technicolor film can spacers
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Scott Norwood
Film God
Posts: 8146
From: Boston, MA. USA (1774.21 miles northeast of Dallas)
Registered: Jun 99
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posted 11-11-2004 06:55 PM
I got a print today that should (hopefully) make someone at TES reconsider their new policy of re-attaching leaders with single-sided splices.
My print arrived heads-out, with no reel bands. Leaders were secured with white paper artists tape. ![[thumbsup]](graemlins/thumbsup.gif) The head leader on the first reel was spliced on out of frame and with three layers of splicing tape (four on the single-sided splice side). The other reels were in similar condition (though the leaders were in frame). Tails on all reels (except the last) were attached with masking tape.
My "issue" is with the single-sided splices. Because they were made on top of several layers' worth of tape, they will need to be re-made, anyway (after removing the previous layers of tape). And they're useless at protecting film from edge damage, as any damage would have already been done in the initial trip from the previous theatre to TES. Worse, the single-sided splices on the head leaders might encourage a sucky reel-to-reel house to run the film as-is off the shipping reels, without giving any indication that the tails aren't properly attached, possibly causing damage to film and equipment.
I feel somewhat badly about saying this, as it is obvious that someone at TES is trying to improve their operations, but I'd say at this point that leaders should be left as-is, unless someone is going to rewind each reel, remove any existing tape, and make proper splices (single-sided or double-sided). Since that isn't going to happen, my current thinking is that the new practice is useless at best and counterproductive at worst. I'm open to being convinced otherwise, however, if there are dissenting views.
As for the spacers, I agree that they are a good idea in principle, though the whole problem would be solved if they would just use the proper can sizes in the first place, at least for second-run engagments, repertory titles, and for new prints which are not shipped with trailers.
(I still haven't seen those orange reels in an actual shipment, though jhawk showed me an early prototype).
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Brad Miller
Administrator
Posts: 17775
From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall)
Registered: May 99
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posted 11-11-2004 08:28 PM
quote: Scott Norwood
I'm open to being convinced otherwise, however, if there are dissenting views.
Ok Scott, I'll tell you why your initial thoughts on this are so wrong.
quote: Scott Norwood
And they're useless at protecting film from edge damage, as any damage would have already been done in the initial trip from the previous theatre to TES.
So you are in favor of some dipwad breaking down a print incorrectly and the edges suffering damage on route back to TES, then the TES inspectors unwinding it for their quick 20 feet inspection, then wrapping/masking taping them back the way they found it to suffer MORE damage as the print then travels to your theater? You need to rethink that one. The splice ensures no further edge damage will happen from the second transport of the print from TES to your theater. The fact that it is a single sided splice helps to promote easy peeling too, rather than chopping frames.
quote: Scott Norwood
Worse, the single-sided splices on the head leaders might encourage a sucky reel-to-reel house to run the film as-is off the shipping reels, without giving any indication that the tails aren't properly attached, possibly causing damage to film and equipment.
In this day and age of platters, if there is a changeover projectionist that doesn't check for this, they DESERVE to have their show botched.
quote: Scott Norwood
but I'd say at this point that leaders should be left as-is, unless someone is going to rewind each reel, remove any existing tape, and make proper splices (single-sided or double-sided).
Think about what you are saying. First off you know that TES doesn't buy Neumade tape, so no matter what kind of tape they use there WILL be residue...that's NEW tape residue for you to contend with. Also there simply is not enough time for the TES inspectors to sit there and carefully peel off the tape from the last theater. So you are saying you would rather them chop off another frame from each reel to make a clean splice? What if their splicer cutting blade doesn't match the theater that last cut the tails? Then you have a nasty splice that YOU must cut off ANOTHER frame on! Bear in mind also no matter what, the depots will never have enough time to wind through the entire reel to the end, so you will STILL have to contend with however the tail leader was re-attached (or not attached) at the last playdate.
I don't understand your thought process at all. Given the time constrictions of the depot and the way so many tardos break down prints, the way TES is handling their quick check inspections now with the single sided splice (over the last theater's tape) is really in the best interest of the film prints.
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Monte L Fullmer
Film God
Posts: 8367
From: Nampa, Idaho, USA
Registered: Nov 2004
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posted 11-30-2004 02:51 AM
Yea, I read that note as well with the spacer thingey: Easy solution: Fill that blank section in with your old trailers-either left on the stock core, or wind a bunch on one of those stock cores to the size of a reel, shove that roll in the empty space, since print's going back to ETS or TECH are eventually going back to the labs anywho for recycling.
Also, since I work in a sub-run/discount house, with prints coming in with leader's aready cut and retaped with the single side splicing tape, I'd still be more prone to cut and splice anew to make sure that I have a clean and tight splice to endure throughout the print's engagement as for when we had LOTR-III - we held that print for 12wks. For it was a used print, and after the engagement, my spices were still tight and ran thorugh the machine without any loop popping or frame jump when the splice ran through.
I just don't believe in using other operator's cuts and splices. I want a clean presentation-as if I was building a new print. -
Monte
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John Hawkinson
Film God
Posts: 2273
From: Cambridge, MA, USA
Registered: Feb 2002
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posted 11-30-2004 05:13 AM
Monte: Carl's statement definitely respects the concensus of most people here on Film-Tech. Any downside from trusting other operator's cuts is far outweighed by the worse downside of losing the continuity (in both sound and picture) of a frame.
Everyone should go to extreme measures to try to avoid losing frames, if it all feasable. If the previous operator has cut the frame down the middle or somesuch, OK, it's lost. But just because it is loaded with gummed up tape (clean with Renovex, Film-Guard, naphtha, etc.), or you have to peel off someone else's splicing tape is definitely no reason to cut.
Remember, 2 ID frames (the "norm") is 84ms (almost a tenth of a second), and cutting off 2 frames is 167ms; that is really quite noticable, especially if there is any dialogue, as there is more and more often these days.
Film Done Right means taking the time to preserve those frames and not taking the easy way out. Conversely, it means reassemblying the leaders to the reel with a single-sided splice on a splicer so the film isn't damaged by winding or shipping, and it is easy for the next guy to remove it (platter) or tape the other side (changeover). (Double-sided splice is also ok, but favors the rare c/o overator over the common platter operator.)
--jhawk
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Monte L Fullmer
Film God
Posts: 8367
From: Nampa, Idaho, USA
Registered: Nov 2004
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posted 11-30-2004 05:19 AM
True, very true and well spoken as well.
There were times that I would try the solvent trick in removing the previous tape and see if the previous splice was good enough to use, but most of the time it was so gaudy of a splice made that I went to making new splices. (besides, the company I work for, this is their policy on splicing is to make new splices and their employees have been trained as such....can't turn that one around in a heartbeat).
As you can see and prob can tell, I don't work in a first-run house, working with new prints anymore. I used to treat these new prints like gold and ensured that they remained in the new condition when they left.
Now, I'm in a discount house, hassling with used prints, that they themselves have been hacked a couple of times, leaders with no "reference" frames remaining on the front of the head leader, (which is the worst thing to be dumped on when assembling a used print and the leaders were attached by masking tape and held down by the same and the ends come loose in the can and film all over in the cans..DAMMIT..what a mess!), or no leaders at all, prints scratched to smithereens from poor operations and then can't get replacement prints for the owners don't want to take the chance of being blamed for print damage from the depots, so thus, this is what I have to work with.
Plus, the other employee/operators don't care at all about film assemblies, even though I've taught them till I'm blue in the face..for they're under the control of the manager who doesn't really care as well..I'm just the local engineer/projectionist who have to "baby-sit" these morons to keep things running smooth.
I used to use the triangular opaque tape over the soundtrack area in the days of "who ever heard of digital soundtracks", and wanted to omit that dreaded "pop" on reel change. I used vinyl electrical tape for the triangle, then covered that with the splice tape. Worked pretty slick.
Nowdays, with DTS,SR-D and SDDS-(sony baloney), that small gap thingey isn't being the big topic anymore.
But you still get some operators who splice opaque tape on SR-D presentations and the good ol "pop" comes back when the processor can't switch back and forth from dig to opt fast enough, since that opaque tape blocks 4 sprockets of info-the 4 sprockets needed for a complete frame read from the track.
Should tell these operators of SpliceMark tape...and even that doesn't work most of the time....(sigh) the new generation just doesn't care...
It's just that where I came from the days of changeover booths and where the changeover was flawless and extremely smooth, I do my best to ensure that my presentations are the close to this changeover era...is why I always do new splices to keep the same smooth continuty as possible as I did with the changeover method.
Nothing bugs me more when others splice very sloppily, the picture jumps due to a sloppy splice, sound pops, using opaque tape, et.al. ... and the patron have to sit through that mess when they forked out over 8 bucks a ticket, when they can see a flawless performance when they buy/rent the DVD and watch this on their home theatre screens.
I miss working in first-run houses. I want to go back there.
thx - Monte
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