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Author Topic: Cyan Dye Tracks -- Disney Announcement at ShowEast Steve Kraus Film God Posts: 4094 From: Chicago, IL, USA Registered: May 2000 posted 11-14-2004 10:01 AM                    Which begs the question: Should a system be capable of destroying speakers no matter what input signal it's given? Shouldn't a line be drawn short of self destruction? With digital processing and DSP crossovers ought there not be a way to limit based on the particular capabilities of amps and speakers? I don't mean Afterburner toning things down overall but rather something that blocks some sort of extreme that whether part of a track or not simply cannot be allowed to go through.  |  IP: Logged Jack Ondracek Film God Posts: 2348 From: Port Orchard, WA, USA Registered: Oct 2002 posted 11-14-2004 10:17 AM                        Good thought, Steve... and if a sound system was built as a single unit (the "Apogee" of audio ), that might be possible. Too many variables, though. You could limit any audio component so it wouldn't ever clip. However, even if you had a full audio chain of self-limited components, you'd lose control as soon as you hit the speaker... unless you want to allow the amplifier manufacturer to designate speaker models. You'd have to have an amplifer that would allow you to set a maximum headroom over whatever output level generates 85dB in your auditorium. That could be done... but it'd wind up being something like an Overdrive anyway, wouldn't it?  |  IP: Logged Gordon McLeod Film God Posts: 9532 From: Toronto Ontario Canada Registered: Jun 99 posted 11-14-2004 10:50 AM                     Stage Accompany actually has that on there amplifier speaker combinations that look at the speaker as a servo motor and the amp monitors the drivers position still a proper red reader will be far less expensive than redesigning the system around a situtation to maintain a white light  |  IP: Logged Jeffry L. Johnson Jedi Master Film Handler Posts: 809 From: Cleveland, Ohio, USA Registered: Apr 2000 posted 11-14-2004 01:26 PM                        PolyFuse?  |  IP: Logged Mark Gulbrandsen Resident Trollmaster Posts: 16657 From: Music City Registered: Jun 99 posted 11-14-2004 02:13 PM                     Never used a Poly Fuse but.... Klipsch (are we allowed to mention that name here) used zener diodes across their HF drivers in many models. The LaScalla was one of them. Dolby used car tail light bulbs in the surrounds in the Dolby screening room to prevent tweeter losses. They were and still are running an incredible amount of power(many thousands of watts) in each surround channel there. Don't know if the bulbs are still in the speakers but I have also done this trick with great sucess. Installing a limiter in the system can also be helpful at limiting transients capable of blowing out drivers..... The limiter can be set to a tad higher level than any digital track will put out at say 85 db refrence level. So it will basically not be there in normal film playback but would be there to save the system fomr large transients(or the janitors listening to music whilst cleaning up). Some QSC amps have built in limiting that can be switched in or out. quote: Ed Jurich Holmes at home. I never heard of that model Holmes.... Mark  |  IP: Logged Lindsay Morris Expert Film Handler Posts: 233 From: Darlington, WA, Australia Registered: Sep 2002 posted 11-15-2004 06:19 PM                     Poly Fuses or Poly Switches as they are called in OZ are very reliable devices and are primarily intended for speaker use. In most Electronic parts stores there is a range of 10 generally available.They range in current ratings from 0.3A to 3.75A continous at 20C and "trip" at twice the continuos rating. When they trip they more or less go open.. or quite hi resistance and stay that way until the excess drive is removed. Then they cool down and resume normal condition. Have a pair installed in my mobile screening speakers being driven by a 100watt RMS amp. In use when I drive things real hard the audible effect is that the speaker keeps going but slowly reduces in output... the harder you drive it the quieter the speaker becomes. GOOF PROOF. In reality they are positive temperature coefficient devices. IE the resistance rises as the temp increases by the passage of current thru them. However they cannot effectively limit sudden harsh transients and that is where the car lamp use "shines"... only problem is being able to always find a suitable lamp to suit all situations. Any speakers that I occasionally hire out have Poly Switches installed as one never knows what folk will attempt to drive them with. Lindsay  |  IP: Logged Frank Jerkic Film Handler Posts: 77 From: Ayr Queensland Australia Registered: May 2004 posted 11-15-2004 09:28 PM                        John Pytlak posted a news item ..pure-dye cyan soundtracks for all future 35mm film prints of Walt Disney Pictures and Touchstone Pictures releases, starting with the February 2005 release of Disney's "The Heffalump Movie," A few Ozzie exhibitors were told that The Incredibles due for release at Christmas will be in the new cyan, how can this be surely Disney would not strike special prints for Australia? At least it having the desired affect by getting everyone to rush around looking for Red LED's  |  IP: Logged John Pytlak Film God Posts: 9987 From: Rochester, NY 14650-1922 Registered: Jan 2000 posted 11-16-2004 07:30 AM                        quote: Frank Jerkic A few Ozzie exhibitors were told that The Incredibles due for release at Christmas will be in the new cyan, how can this be surely Disney would not strike special prints for Australia? At least it having the desired affect by getting everyone to rush around looking for Red LED's Interesting. Even if they import some rejuvenated prints from the USA, it's likely many new prints will be made for that market since it will still be playing in North America. Recent theatre surveys show the vast majority of theatres in Australia and New Zealand have red LED readers, so Disney may have decided to go ahead with the conversion to cyan dye tracks a bit earlier than the rest of the world.  |  IP: Logged Frank Jerkic Film Handler Posts: 77 From: Ayr Queensland Australia Registered: May 2004 posted 11-16-2004 08:30 PM                        Hi John, Well I dont know about any survey being done on cinemas in Australia / NZ to see if they have changed over to Led Readers Maybe they have only surveyed the major complex's, Nobody has ever asked me and if it was not for Disney's letter saying Mr. 3000 would be in cyan I would be none the wiser, what I do know is that there are quite a few independant cinems (me included) that have not made the change and a few have no idea of what I am talking about  |  IP: Logged Dominic Case Expert Film Handler Posts: 131 From: Sydney NSW Australia Registered: Aug 2003 posted 11-16-2004 09:13 PM                       quote: Frank Jerkic Hi John, Well I dont know about any survey being done on cinemas in Australia A comprehensive survey was carried out a couple of years ago, Frank, with a very impressive response rate. Over 80% of cinemas in Asutralia were approached, and over 80% of those responded - very good results for any survey method. 78% of those that responded at that time already had red LED readers. WE had 100% response fro the major chains, less thorough responses from the individual cinemas - but it's still a good sample. Whether you were one of the few who were missed, or one who didn't respond - or perhaps you actually did respond then - it's clear that the vast majority were red LED then (October 2002), and I know that many more are now. You are one of the few who haven't converted. The results of the survey have been on the dyetracks website for a couple of years - so there's no reason for "not knowing about any survey". Quite reently, Peter Amies at the Film Unit (New Zealand) carried out a survey in NZ, also published on the dyetracks website. He found an even higher red LED penetration, and the report makes very interesting reading. Have a look. Disney stated that they would be ordering cyan tracks in the New Year. As The Incredibles is due out before then, clearly it won't be in cyan. I won't go through all the information that has been disseminated about the change to cyan tracks yet again, but it's hard to believe that there are many cinemas who don't, by now, know what you are talking about. Even if all they'd had was the Disney Mr3000 letter they would have been alerted.  |  IP: Logged Frank Jerkic Film Handler Posts: 77 From: Ayr Queensland Australia Registered: May 2004 posted 11-16-2004 10:02 PM                        Quote:- it's hard to believe that there are many cinemas who don't, by now, know what you are talking about. Even if all they'd had was the Disney Mr3000 letter they would have been alerted. ___________________________________________________________________ Yes I agree that they should have been alerted before the Disney letter NOT after recieving the letter but I dont recall if that letter said or explained that you needed to change your xciter bulb etc. there is 2 small town cinemas about 4 hours from me that I know off who dont have internet or the foggest idea what is going to change. I never recieved any survey form neither did my friend at Charters Towers, Where's the movie Mr. 3000 now? Kind Regards Frank  |  IP: Logged Lindsay Morris Expert Film Handler Posts: 233 From: Darlington, WA, Australia Registered: Sep 2002 posted 11-17-2004 02:02 AM                     Frank, Do not know how much stuff you actually screen from BVI here in OZ but it seems that most exhibitors who have had BVI product in the last 6 months or so got a circular letter during March 2004 from BVI regarding the switch to Cyan tracks. I cannot get my bloody scanner to take this B&W letter and make a JPEG file out of it so I can post it here so I will retype verbatim. It is headed: BVI Australia. "To all technical & projection staff, Buena Vista to Make the Switch to the Environmentally Friendly Cyan Analog Soundtracks Starting September 24, 2004 On September 24th 2004 Buena Vista Pictures Distribution will release the Touchstone Films Comedy, Mr 3000, with cyan dye (blue) analog soundtracks. This is the first Buena Vista release to be printed with the new tracks. Starting in January 1 2005, all Buena Vista prints worldwide will have cyan dye analog soundtracks. The new process offers significant environmental benefits. To play the new analog tracks, your projector must be equipped with a visible red light analog reader. Although this change does not directly affect playback of the digital soundtracks, in the event of a digital soundtrack failure, the analog will have unacceptable sound without a visible red light reader. You can expect that with a white light reader the sound will be 12dB lower than the digital track and with an infrared reader you will have no sound. If your projectors are not yet equipped with red light analog readers, contact your theatre equipment dealer as soon as possible to arrange for replacement of your white light or infrared readers. For further information about analog cyan dye tracks, the environmental benefits, and red light readers, go to [url= http://www.dyetracks.org."]www.dyetracks.org."[/url] End quote. This was followed with a photo of the analog track on a piece of film and the note that that track will be cyan in colour. This was signed off by BVI (Aust) Level 4 Como Centre Melbourne where we all go to book BVI product. I got my copy during the final few weeks of our past season during March 2004 and just smiled as I had done my switch prior to season start in Nov 2003. The laser reader ran perfectly thru the season and subsequent test I have done show that the signal level WILL be the 11-12dB down with a white reader and Cyan as compared to a red reader and Cyan. I can compensate with the Eprad Starlet processor preamp as those boards have enuff grunt to drag the cyan with a white lamp up to the 4 LED Dolby level on the Eprad so the Master fader stays at the same spot. BUT the noise also comes up and every switch click in the bio box which in the past was almost inaudible becomes a SPLAT in the sound system with the preamp wound up that much. (New speaker cones??? or poly switches) This was just running the Cyan Dolby tone loop.... cringe to think what it will be like on a real flik during quiet passages Others with more up to date processors may not be able to drag the level up as the Eprad was known to have plenty of front end gain. We did not see Mr 3000 in this country so nobody got a cyan track but a couple of my mates in NSW have got cyan trailers lately and wondered what the hell was going on. BVI, so far, are the only distributor in Australia to actually go into print regarding cyan ALL others are very silent and enquiries at the various despatch centres here in West Australia only bring a shrug of the shoulders... almost like it will not be happening A year or so back I got a survey from then GUET re Red readers which was worded like it was almost touting for business to fit red readers and questions I raised in the response to that survey went totally unanswered so when it came to sourcing a laser reader the last place I went to was GUET (now Atlab). I figured that if they could not find the time to respond they really did not want my business. Very happy with the ACL laser unit and it just drops straight into the Century/Westrex 2003 soundhead and dead easy to align. Lindsay  |  IP: Logged Frank Jerkic Film Handler Posts: 77 From: Ayr Queensland Australia Registered: May 2004 posted 11-17-2004 05:19 AM                        G'Day Lindsay Yep I got my BVI letter in May 2004, other exhibitors didn't get one, I was asked last week if I got the one from Columbia? No I havent yet. As I understand the problem for some small Qld country cinemas is that the BVI letter was the first they ever heard about cyan and the last they will ever hear about Mr.3000, when I asked other film distributors about when their movies are coming out in Cyan they didnt seem to have any idea what I was on about As I said before I think that all trailers should be in Cyan so you know what to expect and also you would know if your led reader was working correctly before you run a movie hopefully to a full house Kind Regards Frank P.S. thanxs for typing out the BVI letter lol  |  IP: Logged Lindsay Morris Expert Film Handler Posts: 233 From: Darlington, WA, Australia Registered: Sep 2002 posted 11-17-2004 04:30 PM                     Frank, Have not seen anything re Cyan from Columbia but then in the last season or so I have utilised very little from them. However, went to Roadshow Trade Day on Tues 16th Nov here in WA and NO mention from them re cyan. The only discussion re cyan was amongst us various exhibitors as to what we were all doing. Some are adapting the Cinemecannica LED cluster to old gear such as Raycophone J3 plant, others are using what I am using (ACL) some are using the newer ACL unit which totally replaces the lens slit assembly and apparently slides into the lens clamp unit. Some of the bigger complexes in the Perth area have SOME of their readers replaced and they seem to be adopting a "wait & see" approach and have the idea that they will just move prints to the screens that have red readers if and when they get cyan prints. There has not been any formal advice from Fox, UIP, Icon, Hopscotch, Hoyts and others re cyan... but that does not surprise me as those are more interested in just booking the film rather than the technical aspects of whether their prints will play on various plant. One would have thought that by now after the BVI release some of these would have got off their backsides and established just what they are going to do regarding cyan. Lindsay  |  IP: Logged Monte L Fullmer Film God Posts: 8367 From: Nampa, Idaho, USA Registered: Nov 2004 posted 11-30-2004 03:31 AM                     Hi again Marko: Never heard of a "Holmes" portable projector? These used the old 1k MAZDA incadescent,Mogul base bulbs. Remember my friend Gary, in Boise? he has about 6 of these portables that he picked up for a song a long time ago. When I go over to his place, I'll have to take a snap of these Holmes and send to you. -thx monte  |  IP: Logged

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