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Author Topic: Threading Up Robert E. Allen Phenomenal Film Handler Posts: 1078 From: Checotah, Oklahoma Registered: Jul 2002 posted 12-13-2004 12:19 PM                     Good advise from Brad. There is no right or wrong method for threading a projector properly. After looping the film around the projector from the platter I start at the top soundhead (some of our machines have two on top, one of which we usually bypass) and work my way down (as I've done for 25 years). Others here lock the film in the gate first. There's never a need to hurry. If you've got a "late start" the audience can wait a few more seconds while you thread the machine properly. Ours are Strong-Simplex units.  |  IP: Logged Monte L Fullmer Film God Posts: 8367 From: Nampa, Idaho, USA Registered: Nov 2004 posted 12-14-2004 12:28 AM                     True, with the 21 frame count from "Picture Start" frame in the aperture opening, to the "Sound Start" midline frame mark, directly across the scanner area in a Century, that bottom loop does look pretty tight as the film wants to run into the Intermittent sprocket pad assembly, but doesn't. Some operators add an extra sprocket or two to the lower loopsize to make themselves breathe a little better. Course, it all depends where the intermittent assembly is framed at the beginning. If the assembly is cranked all the way up, that loop IS going to be a bit tighter, being the intermittent assembly is farther distance from the middle constant speed sprocket. All the way down, the loop might look safer, being the intermittent assembly is closer to the middle constant speed sprocket. Actual trick is the have the assembly close to the middle of the vertical travel for comfortable results and have that play if a misframe happens. P35GPS is basically the same: Have that framing knob dead center for the correct 21 frame count and loop size.  |  IP: Logged Brad Miller Administrator Posts: 17775 From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall) Registered: May 99 posted 12-14-2004 01:24 AM                     The Christie P35GPS produces the steadiest picture with the framing racked as low as it can go, while still being "in frame". Crank it down as low as it will go, then raise it slightly and you're good. On the P35GPS, the lower loop should pull snug against the pad roller in the OPEN position...as the projector is turned over by hand. (It should not "tug" on the pad roller.) Any larger and you will be placing scratches on the image that resemble cinch mark scratches (tiny dash scratches) *or* you will be damaging the SDDS and SRD track (if the projector is equipped with slap guards underneath the ultramittent). The Century should be threaded where at the smallest point of the loop's travel, you can just fit a Sharpie marker in between the film and intermittent shoe. Any larger and again you risk the same scratching issue. Plus, it runs quieter this way.  |  IP: Logged David Yauch Expert Film Handler Posts: 206 From: Mesa, AZ, USA Registered: Oct 2004 posted 12-14-2004 01:32 AM                     Seeing as how I've received about 15 different opinions on this, i might as well add another. What's the proper loop size for a V5? And don't say the proper loop size involves throwing the projector in the garbage, I can't do that.  |  IP: Logged Brad Miller Administrator Posts: 17775 From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall) Registered: May 99 posted 12-14-2004 01:50 AM                     On a V5, remember the loop will get smaller once the machine is in motion. Personally I find the projectors run their best when the lower loop is just about as big around as a Sharpie marker when they are running. On the upper loop of a V5, you want the film to "bend backwards" over the top of the gate. It produces less buckling in the gate and a steadier picture.  |  IP: Logged David Yauch Expert Film Handler Posts: 206 From: Mesa, AZ, USA Registered: Oct 2004 posted 12-14-2004 03:35 AM                     Good. That's just about the size i've kept my loops since training. Some insist on making the biggest loops possible so that they wont touch any metal when you turn the motor knob a few rotations, but I find that's overkill. It's completely unnecessary to have the leeway to turn your framing knob 2 full frames both ways, and if you need to then you really, really suck.  |  IP: Logged Monte L Fullmer Film God Posts: 8367 From: Nampa, Idaho, USA Registered: Nov 2004 posted 12-14-2004 05:14 AM                     Yep the "sharpie/index finger" proper size policy-works every time. Interesting how the P35 copied the Century in lower loop sizing/formations. also...about the same with the PRO-35: keep the top loop as small as possible without excess flopping, but not too small, or it'll rattle some with those flat rails in the trap, and that machine can run pretty quiet - just as long as you can keep that 21 frame count in the lower half.  |  IP: Logged Scott Norwood Film God Posts: 8146 From: Boston, MA. USA (1774.21 miles northeast of Dallas) Registered: Jun 99 posted 12-14-2004 06:29 AM                        It's probably worth pointing out that the "21 frames" distance is appropriate for a screening room or home theatre. Larger theatres demand smaller loop sizes; otherwise, the sound sync will be off in the middle of the auditorium (sound behind picture). I usually thread with 20 frames between the gate and the soundhead in an "average" theatre, less in especially deep ones. I believe that Dolby has a test film that has single-frame flashes with beep tones on the track. This isn't actually necessary, though, and any film with lots of lip-sync dialogue can be used to figure out the proper sync arrangement for any particular size of theatre. As for other loop sizes, different projectors have different tolerances. When running 70mm on a Century JJ, the top loop has to be dead-on to avoid scratching film, unless the 35mm pad roller is removed. Other machines are much more tolerant. With V5s, the top loop will hit some part of the machine and scratch the film if it is too big.  |  IP: Logged John Pytlak Film God Posts: 9987 From: Rochester, NY 14650-1922 Registered: Jan 2000 posted 12-14-2004 11:06 AM                        Standard SMPTE 40-2001 specifies 21 frames between the picture frame and the corresponding analog sound ON THE PRINT itself. As Scott notes, because sound takes about 1/24 second to travel from the screen speakers to the center of the audience in a moderate sized theatre, you want the sound to "lead" the picture by about a frame, so thread with 20 frames between picture aperture and analog sound pickup, unless you are in a small screening room or drive-in (very close to the speakers).  |  IP: Logged Monte L Fullmer Film God Posts: 8367 From: Nampa, Idaho, USA Registered: Nov 2004 posted 12-14-2004 02:15 PM                     Interesting. Now that draws the question on Digital: With DTS:do we tick the delay setting back one notch and basically the same with SR-d - either the penthouses, or the basement readers to achieve this 20 frame count for the larger auditoriums? thx-Monte  |  IP: Logged Eric Webb Film Handler Posts: 40 From: Atlanta GA Registered: Oct 2004 posted 12-31-2004 02:26 AM                     I think threading it right is the best way instead of messing the print up  |  IP: Logged Christian Volpi Master Film Handler Posts: 349 From: Arlington, NE Registered: Apr 2004 posted 12-31-2004 04:06 PM                        quote: Eric Webb I think threading it right is the best way instead of messing the print up No shit?  |  IP: Logged Thomas King Expert Film Handler Posts: 119 From: Sheffield, Yorkshire, England Registered: Oct 2004 posted 12-31-2004 05:59 PM                        I draw the film straight through from one platter to the other, lock in the gate, go down, up, and then tension. Probably not the fastest way of doing it, but then it doesn't need to be. It's easy, and you never get film touching the ground.  |  IP: Logged Barry Martin Expert Film Handler Posts: 203 From: Newington, CT USA Registered: Jul 2002 posted 12-31-2004 11:41 PM                        quote: Christian Volpi No shit? Priceless Christian!  |  IP: Logged Monte L Fullmer Film God Posts: 8367 From: Nampa, Idaho, USA Registered: Nov 2004 posted 01-01-2005 01:46 AM                     quote: Christian Volpi No shit? ..take X-Lax!  |  IP: Logged

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