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Author Topic: When Is DTS Going To Fix Distribution Problems Frank Angel Film God Posts: 5305 From: Brooklyn NY USA Registered: Dec 1999 posted 01-13-2005 02:16 AM                        All the "DTS Rocks" slogans and shouting from the rooftops that DTS is a loss-less compression system (read: better than Dolby's Pretty Damn Compressed system) is nothing more than hot air BS if they can't get the damn disks to the theatres to play on their big-deal loss-less system. And tell me if I am missing something here, but has there been some huge black market demand for pirated SOUNDTRACKS? I mean, were there guys in the theatres with DAT recorders under their trench coats instead of camcorders prirating the movie soundtacks that we've been missing? Has the MPAA ever claimed that copyright infringement of SOUNDTRACKS is costing them BILLIONS in lost revenue (oops, sorry, didn't mean to give them any ideas)? And if someone DID get their hands on a pirated copy of a soundtrack, would that stop them or anyone else they sold it to from going to see the movie? Come on, this argument sounds like it's being pulled out of a suit's arse hole to cover a major, glaring inadequacy in the DTS system. To be fair to DTS, perhaps this is not really their fault. Perhaps it's really just the studio suits' dastardly way of quietly abandoning this format altogether and leaving the exhibitors who invested in the hardware hanging out to dry (as if studio execs would loose any sleep over doing something like that). If the studios are trying to walk away from the added hassle of that additional process of disk duping and distribution and intentionally letting DTS die, that will really go a LONG way to gain exhibitor's trust to get them to invest in OTHER digital technology....like D-Cinema. Scenario -- two years after Mr. Exhibitor invested in a spanking new DLP system, he's on the phone trying to wrap up a deal to book the hottest new release of SPIDER MAN 6. Distrib: "Oooohw, gee, I AM sorry, but all our releases after last month's BOURNE AGAIN SUPREMACY, including Spidy6, are now only available in the new AB-DLP (Awesomely Better DLP) system. Man, we really expected you all would have made the $100,000 upgrade by now." Exhib: "Beep you, you beep beep beep beep beep....and the horse you beepin road in on too"  |  IP: Logged Ian Bailey Master Film Handler Posts: 317 From: Nambucca Heads, Australia Registered: Jun 2003 posted 01-13-2005 06:18 AM                     Hi Matt I just had the same problem in getting discs for Ladder 49.Luckily I have XD-10's so I drove 50klms(4 times)to our nearest competition,borrowed the discs,loaded them onto the XD-10 and then returned them straight away.Don't think that the XD-10 is the be-all and end-all of machines they have plenty of bugs that need to be ironed out by DTS-and we have only had ours for one month!Try connecting one to a CSP 1200 and see how long it switches formats correctly. By the way if you have a look on the DTS web site there is a section where you can complain to DTS about not getting discs.I don't know whether that will help or not but they may contact the distributors and stir them up a bit.(and PIGS FLY TOO!!!)  |  IP: Logged Brad Miller Administrator Posts: 17775 From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall) Registered: May 99 posted 01-13-2005 06:30 AM                     Wouldn't it have been much easier to just copy the discs on site at the other theater? I mean, virtually every laptop these days has a cd burner in it, and surely someone would've had a burner if you didn't.  |  IP: Logged Scott Jentsch Phenomenal Film Handler Posts: 1061 From: New Berlin, WI, USA Registered: Apr 2003 posted 01-13-2005 12:11 PM                        If the availability problem is widespread, I'm surprised no one has used a P2P file-sharing solution to address the problem. I'm not saying that I would condone such an activity (because I am not aware of the ins and outs of the legal issues involved), but I'm surprised that such a process doesn't exist... (After all, it's just doing the disc copying that's being done now between theaters, but I know that bringing up any kind of "Internet" distribution causes many to lose control of the common sense portion of their brains.)  |  IP: Logged John Hawkinson Film God Posts: 2273 From: Cambridge, MA, USA Registered: Feb 2002 posted 01-13-2005 11:58 PM                     Frank said, "All the "DTS Rocks" slogans and shouting from the rooftops that DTS is a loss-less compression system..." DTS does not claim to be lossless compression. The XD10 can support lossless compression, I believe, but that is not the norm. I'm not sure how much relevance Australian distribution problems have to other localities... --jhawk  |  IP: Logged Ian Bailey Master Film Handler Posts: 317 From: Nambucca Heads, Australia Registered: Jun 2003 posted 01-14-2005 05:39 AM                     Brad I'm in the process of trying to get an arsehole we found selling pirated copies of the Incredibles in court-3 weeks before it was released over here so I really didn't want to burn DTS discs.  |  IP: Logged Brad Miller Administrator Posts: 17775 From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall) Registered: May 99 posted 01-14-2005 06:08 AM                     I understand, but don't you feel there is an honest difference there? You have a print from the studio and are licensed to show it. That jackass bootlegger was blatantly stealing from the studio and profiting on it. I believe there is a huge difference between the two.  |  IP: Logged Brad Allen Jedi Master Film Handler Posts: 688 From: Evansville, IN, USA Registered: May 2000 posted 01-14-2005 11:56 AM                     Matt, have you tried to contact DTS about your woes? Contrary to others opinions here, I have found DTS to be helpful and interested. I've owned XD-10's now for about 6 months, no problems at all...so far. We had a slight problem in the beginning with receiving Trailer disc's, a call to DTS straightened it right out. I had some confusion about the proper setup, called DTS tech support, left a voice mail, 30 minutes later I was chatting with the head design engineer who was very helpful and forthcoming. Your mileage may very.  |  IP: Logged Mike Blakesley Film God Posts: 12767 From: Forsyth, Montana Registered: Jun 99 posted 01-14-2005 12:12 PM                        I can vouch similar experience. We put in an XD-10 about 18 months ago. We had a problem with it when it was one month past warranty, but an email to DTS followed by a short phone conversation fixed the problem at no charge. As for the disk problem -- we've probably only suffered the "missing disks" problem maybe once every year or less. In most of those cases, a phone call to ETS, Technicolor or DTS has resulted in a set of disks being overnighted to us. So I wouldn't call it a gigantic deal-breaking problem, but I still believe the idiots who don't return the disks should be paying through the nose and/or getting taken off service from the appropriate film companies.  |  IP: Logged Matt Close Expert Film Handler Posts: 226 From: Hervey Bay, QLD, Australia Registered: Sep 2001 posted 01-15-2005 05:56 PM                        "DTS isn't in the distribution business. They are in the sound reproduction business. It's up to the film companies to make sure the disks are distributed with the films." If you were making a product for any industry ... that was been treated with disregard by distributors ... AND was competing with other similar products .... wouldn't you as a company be VERY interested in implementing programs to ensure the problems were fixed? As for complaining of a lack of time to prep the discs .... ummmmmm..... how long does it take to make a movie? Wouldn't arrangements for production and distribution dates be organised months in advance?  |  IP: Logged Mike Blakesley Film God Posts: 12767 From: Forsyth, Montana Registered: Jun 99 posted 01-15-2005 06:26 PM                        quote: Matt Close If you were making a product for any industry ... that was been treated with disregard by distributors ... AND was competing with other similar products .... wouldn't you as a company be VERY interested in implementing programs to ensure the problems were fixed? Of course I would but the film companies pay DTS for the disks, then DTS has no control over them, so how can they "implement programs?" The film companies are the ones who are dropping the ball because they don't penalize theatres that keep the disks. This is because they only think presentation matters on the opening weekend. As for your last question -- the editing and sound mix often isn't finalized until very close to the release date, so lots of prints AND lots of disks have to be produced in a big hurry.  |  IP: Logged Alexander Smith Expert Film Handler Posts: 128 From: Walney Island, Barrow-in-Furness, Cumbria. Registered: Jun 2003 posted 01-16-2005 09:04 AM                     Sorry I've come in to this a bit late, but... In the third posting in this thread Matt Close says: "As far as I know, software playback on a PC has not been acheived at this point" Actually, yes it has. I have a plugin module for WinAMP. It is a 113152 byte file "in_APTX.dll" which identifies its self to WinAMP as "APT-X100 DTS Decoder v1.0". I consider it a curio, and nothing more. To use it to convert the complete audio for a feature would be very time-consuming I think. Sometimes, when making up a feature (supplied with DTS audio discs) I will listen to the first reel or two of sound just to get an idea what the film is about. Alex.  |  IP: Logged Thomas Procyk Phenomenal Film Handler Posts: 1842 From: Royal Palm Beach, FL, USA Registered: Feb 2002 posted 01-16-2005 09:46 AM                     Even if a pirate DID rip the auio off of DTS discs to add to his newly-bootlegged mess, wouldn't there be sync problems? Forgive me if I'm wrong, but the audio is essentially 24fps while the bootlegged video is 30fps? Wouldn't the sound eventually begin to drift out of sync? So someone would have to go to A LOT of trouble to add DTS Digital Sound to the blurry, keystoned, cropped, shakey, contrast-lacking, flickering video copy... Can't DTS claim that it owns the physical property (the discs) but the studios own the content? That way DTS themselves could go after the theaters who don't send the discs back. In fact, isn't this already the case? For example, Technicolor distributes prints for Disney. If you don't send the print back, Disney doesn't call you, Technicolor does. If you never send it back, Disney doesn't send you a bill, Technicolor does. (Or do they?) It amazes me at the dedication of the people on this forum. Whereas most people who call themselves projectionists would just throw their hands up in the air and say, "Oh well! No discs, this is running in SR, people won't care!" Here we have people driving over 200klm, at the fault of this flawed distribution network, just so that they can give their audience the best possible presentation, regardless of the ineptitude of whoever allegedly controls these discs. You should be PROUD! =TMP=  |  IP: Logged Leo Enticknap Film God Posts: 7474 From: Loma Linda, CA Registered: Jul 2000 posted 01-16-2005 01:51 PM                        quote: Thomas Procyk Forgive me if I'm wrong, but the audio is essentially 24fps while the bootlegged video is 30fps? If it's been professionally telecined, a film to NTSC video transfer is technically 30fps (60hz interlaced scanning), but the 3:2:2 pulldown makes it simulate 24. So in NTSC territories a pirate might have a chance of syncing up ripped off DTS audio to their camcordered video: assuming, of course, that the projector in the theatre they videoed the film from was running at a rock steady 24fps. No such luck in PAL and SECAM countries, though. Because it scans at 50hz, there's no need to faff about with the 3:2:2 pulldown - you just increase the film speed to 25fps and scan each frame twice. This typically takes 3-4 minutes off the running time of an average feature. So if you tried to combine that with 24fps audio, it would indeed drift out of sync. Edit: I'm being monumentally stupid. Even if you camcorder a film in PAL the film is still running at 24fps. You'll just get interlace flicker on the picture. Again, if the projector speed is accurate, you might have a chance of syncing a DTS ripoff. But I doubt if it would be precise enough. But even so, picture and sound quality was never high on the pirates agenda... [ 01-16-2005, 03:31 PM: Message edited by: Leo Enticknap ]  |  IP: Logged Phil Blake Jedi Master Film Handler Posts: 558 From: esperance western australia Registered: Nov 2003 posted 01-24-2005 06:32 AM                        Similar to Matt We experience the same problems on the West Coast, I would safely say we only get DTS discs for 2 out of every 5 DTS coded prints. Some turn up late , usually when the print has finished running in the DTS equiped cinemas , or the discs never turn up. I agree with Steves reply to this thread , make distributors more accountable to what they are supplying us.  |  IP: Logged

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