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Topic: Should a projectionist go to college?

Sam D. Chavez
Film God

Posts: 2153
From: Martinez, CA USA
Registered: Aug 2003

posted 01-21-2005 11:24 AM

No offense intended to Steve of course, and I love Monte's observations. I too have pondered putting an operator wallowing in self loathing out of his misery.

Oddly, I've never met an unbalanced female projectionist.

This has been a very revealing topic.

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Joshua Waaland
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 800
From: Cleveland, Ohio
Registered: Dec 1999

posted 01-21-2005 12:24 PM

I have not read all the replies yet and don't have the time but here is my two cents.

I was much like you and thought school wasn't my bag. I hated it with all my being. I was forced to go my first year to a community school by my mom or move out. I went and of course hated it. I soon quit. After a few years of work I realized that working for 8-9 dollars an hour sucks. Nobody really cares about your plight or what you think of anything when you are on the bottom of the totem pole. I decided that I was smarter than that and it would be a waste to use what I had been given on a job that would never really satisfy me. I went back to school again and this time had to pay my own way. I had to work midnights at UPS moving freight all night and go to school during the day. Needless to say my grades suffered and again I took the easy way out and quit.

A few years ago I again started feeling the pangs of frustration in my current job. By this time I was married and decided to go to school part-time and work full-time. This sucks let me tell you. You never have anytime to yourself or your family. The good thing is I had finally grown up and changed my mind set. I realized that school is all in your head (no pun intended). It just takes hard work and diligence. I kept a 4.0 for three semesters and now have a 3.8. I was the guy in high school that never did any homework. Luckily I had some very nice teahcers who liked me and passed me many times when I shouldn't have been passed. I scraped by when I graduated.

This past monday I made the leap to full-time school again and part-time work. Am I looking forward to all the hard work and studying that is in front of me? Hell no, but I keep my eyes on the prize. The fat cheddar that awaits me when I graduate with my bachelor's in engineering. The hard part is that now I am faced with juggling my job, school and my wife. Thank God I have no kids or I would probably be stuck. My wife wants kids and now I have to get through school as quick as I can. I always say my biggest mistake was not finishing school. I regret it everyday of my life. Now I will be at least 10-15 years behind everyone else. Yes, you can always go back to school, but it will be never be as easy to go as it is now.

My advice to you is go to school. You will not be able to get a decent job anymore without a degree. Union jobs are starting to get scarce and good luck getting one with all the other people competing for them. We have a GM and Ford plant in the town I grew up in and you have to know someone high up to even get in there and they are always getting laid off. Besides with cinema going digital soon, there will be no more projectionists jobs.

Josh

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Monte L Fullmer
Film God

Posts: 8367
From: Nampa, Idaho, USA
Registered: Nov 2004

posted 01-21-2005 03:34 PM

..if you want to see a "cozy" booth, (and I've posted this pic in another thread...) this was my "home" for 12 years.

And you talk about isolated - definitely away from the outside world. Yet, within this theatre, I learned so much on how to take care of a building-from the attic to the basement, auditorium to furnaces(coal, of all things..!!). Now, the private party has this theatre, with the booth all empty, using it as a city performance center.

One can tell back then, that I wasn't thinking about furthering my education. Course, I was younger and dumber then (LOL). - Monte

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Mike Pennell
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 150
From: Tucson, AZ, USA
Registered: Apr 2003

posted 01-21-2005 08:43 PM

quote:
To make college more exciting, go to ASU in Tempe, where the girls dont wear too much clothing in the spring and summer!

Damn Scum Devils! Go Arizona Wildcats! [beer]

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Thomas Procyk
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1842
From: Royal Palm Beach, FL, USA
Registered: Feb 2002

posted 01-22-2005 10:55 AM

Something to ponder:

The new Appretice season started with two teams, one consisting of all members who have a college degree, and the other team consisting of people who only have a High School diploma and went straight into the job market. ("Book smarts" versus "Real world" people)

They revealed approx. how much all the members in each team make combined. The team who only had a high school diploma coupled with what they learned for 4 or whatever years in the field made THREE TIMES MORE MONEY than those with a college degree.

And the college grads are from places like Harvard... so not only do they make LESS money, but they also SPENT tons on their overpriced education, which as Will Hunting said, "...you could have gotten for a dollar fifty in late charges at the public library!" [Smile]

College is overrated. Pursue your ambitions, not what the status quo tells you are your ambitions.

=TMP=

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Mark Gulbrandsen
Resident Trollmaster

Posts: 16657
From: Music City
Registered: Jun 99

posted 01-22-2005 12:47 PM

I agree with both Thomas and Sam.

quote: Thomas Procyk
College is overrated. Pursue your ambitions, not what the status quo tells you are your ambitions.

Real world experience I received over the years has been far more valualable than any college degree could ever have been to me in this field, not that college would hurt but it would have hindered my kowledge of alot of things in this field. Previous jobs involving electronics, mechanics, and optics prepared me to work in this field. I got the equivelent of a 20 year college education of things I wanted to know, learn about or was interested in, not what thise that ran a university thought I should know! If one needs more education in a certain area to expand and improve its always available to you at any time.

quote: Sam D. Chavez
If I may turn this topic on its head, the real questions is, can a projectionist remain normal if there is nothing else in his/her life to make them grow. It is an isolating experience that often causes severe atrophy of the social skills.

Sam that is an excellent thing to bring up and the best point made in this thread. I can honestly say I've been down that up and down road myself. I find that technicians are also affected this way... not just the operators. Road trips are semingly endless and some times very lonley with only your next customer on the horizon or the waitress at the next restaurant to talk to. Spending way too much shop time also affects individuals this way. In effect you become isolated! I see this in myself and is reflected in my postings here sometimes.... I also see it in my co-worlers as well. Yes, getting out and doing other things is a must for the mind and soul to be able to keep ging forword in a normal manner. Thanks for bringing that up. I think this really deserves a thread all by itself!!

Mark

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Joshua Waaland
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 800
From: Cleveland, Ohio
Registered: Dec 1999

posted 01-23-2005 12:08 AM

Thomas,

I would be willing to bet that most of the college grads on "The Apprentice" haven't been out of school long and able to climb the ladder. I too made more money than my wife when she got out of college, but she passed me a year later, and now makes 3 times what I make. I am sure they purposely found very successful people without degrees to prove a point on that show. Of course there are exceptions to any rule, but look up the stats. College grads make an average of $1,000,000 more in a lifetime than non-college grads.

If you don't want to go to school then don't go, you will only hurt yourself and your own future. Can you make it without a degree? Yes, but it will be much harder and less likely. I agree it is a lot of hard work and it sucks studying about things you have absolutely no interest in (economics), but the end result is worth it.

Like Sam said projection work is very isolating. Most of my jobs have been that way and I too felt my social skills(what little I had) dwindling. My lack of social skills and self-esteem was much of the reason that projection work appealed to me so much at first. I was picked on a lot in high school and was very shy. I loved the idea of being left alone for many hours to be by myself and hide from the world. But eventually I knew I had to get back on the horse and do something with my life. Better to fail and say you tried than do nothing and waste your life I guess.

This crap about school is not for everyone really boils my blood. People used to tell me that all the time. My high school guidance counselor was one. She was all to pleased to sign me off when I decided to go vocational. She had put me in the mold of not college material and figured I wasn't good enough. She was a real arrogant woman. Anyhow I let people talk me into that and I bought it for many years. Thank God for my wife who helped me to see otherwise. I thought I sucked at math too. I don't. Turns out I believed all that crap that I wasn't cut out for school and never really tried to put in any hard work to find out. If you apply yourself and get help if you need it, then you can do it. No shame in using the tutoring lab.

Bottom Line: : It takes a lot of hard work to finish school and you can do it if you really want it. You gotta want it. If you are not going to put in the effort, then save your money and start looking for something to fall back on because projection won't be around forever.

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Jim Ziegler
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 753
From: West Hollywood, CA
Registered: Jul 99

posted 01-23-2005 02:02 AM

So if Bill Gates would have finished college he would have $40,001,000,000.00 instead of the $40,000,000,000.00 he has now? [Smile]

Seriously, in the theatre business there really is no degree that having will boost your career. If you go to school, study what you want, get whatever degree you want, because, if you stay in this business, it doesn't really matter what field you study.

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Mark Gulbrandsen
Resident Trollmaster

Posts: 16657
From: Music City
Registered: Jun 99

posted 01-23-2005 08:01 AM

quote: Jim Ziegler
because, if you stay in this business, it doesn't really matter what field you study.

It matters alot if you're a technical person and want to keep abreast of many new developments.

Mark

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Thomas Procyk
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1842
From: Royal Palm Beach, FL, USA
Registered: Feb 2002

posted 01-23-2005 10:20 AM

You want to be rich like Bill Gates?

Open a 2,000 seat Cinerama theater in Orlando, FL.

Make it an "attraction"

You'll be set for life.

Who wants to help me? [Smile]

=TMP=

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Dean Kollet
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 591
From: Florida State University
Registered: Jul 2003

posted 01-23-2005 12:10 PM

yeah Tom, I'll join ya. I think having the best of both worlds makes you get a good job. If you have a college degree and the skills to talk to people on a professional level...boom there ya go. The whole world is all about marketing, and you have to market yourself.

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Jim Ziegler
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 753
From: West Hollywood, CA
Registered: Jul 99

posted 01-23-2005 02:42 PM

I agree with you there Mark, I was talking about the choice of major being largly unimportant (though, for a tech, I can see how an Electrical Engineering degree would be helpful).

If you want to be a tech, classes in electronics and engineering are a definate. If you are in management, some marketing, communication, computer and criminal justice courses are helpful as well.. Most business programs seem to lean towards middle managment cubical jobs, with only a few of their courses teaching anything that will be useful to a theatre manager. Colleges will have programs to turn you into a nurse, or a teacher, etc, but none of them have a B.S. in Projection Technology or a B.A. in Theatre management..

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Will Kutler
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1506
From: Tucson, AZ, USA
Registered: Feb 2001

posted 01-23-2005 03:31 PM

I am really sickened by the negative attitudes of many FT members regarding college.

You don't go about selecting a college major based on the current fad or how much $$ you can make! I have known many people who have done that and who are absolutly miserable!

When selecting a college major, one should determine:

A: What do you enjoy?
B: What your aptitudes are?
C: Is A and B versitle (a base by which to branch out into various fields?
D: Can you earn a comfortable living from A, B and C.?

Anyhow, look at me, as all four of the above apply!

I already have an AAS degree in Machine Tool Technology from an accredited and well respected community college program that is an authorized HAAS learning center and also serves as part of the AZ NTMA apprenticship program.

I am currently finishing my BS degree in Manufacturing Engineering Technology at Arizona State University - East, which is also an accredited program (one of the oldest in the country) and HAAS learning center. HAAS is the largest US manufacturer of machining tools and are almost 100% US MADE!

An excellent aspect to this program is the "real world" experience of the faculty, as well as the programs emensly strong ties with major industry. SME is a major supporter (I am a student member of this major international organization), and the program is accredited by ABET. With the current comeback of the manufacturing sector, the program has seen a 100% job placement rate, along with internships...starting salaries in the $50k range. And once I graduate and obtain a cerrtain level of experience, I will be able to take the industry exams to become a Certified Manufacturing Engineer.

I wrote about some exciting new current events happening with our program in the Film-Yak forum.

So what is my degree about...well many craftsman and artisian type fields that are now falling under the engineer's realm...much of what is exciting, current state-of-the-art technology!

Classes include manual machining; multi-axis CNC programming and machining; tool, die, mould, and pattern making and actual casting; machine design, process planning, hi-tech inspection and measurement, welding, metalurgy, machine design, fluid and thermo dynamics, electronic design, statics, math, physics, chemestry, senior capstone projects, etc....

Cheers

Kutler

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Jeremy Fuentes
Mmmm, Dr. Pepper!

Posts: 1168
From: Corpus Christi, TX United States
Registered: Jan 2004

posted 01-23-2005 05:39 PM

quote:
You don't go about selecting a college major based on .....how much $$ you can make!

quote: Will Kutler
D: Can you earn a comfortable living

So, I take it you minored in self-contradiction??

Its all about how much money you can make, Will. Otherwise, why go? For self-enrichment? I tried to pay a truck payment with self-enrichment once, it didnt work.

quote: Will Kutler
A: What do you enjoy?

I enjoy working at the theater. I wanna either be a tech or an owner, but currently dont make enough money to pay for an education, that includes many classes that I dont need anyway. Core curriculum requires you pay for classes that dont always help you with the degree you are looking for. So do I go to a tech school instead? None here in Corpus. I'm not able to move my family to an area where a tech school is, and still be able to provide for them in the mean time. So how do I stay in the theater business, since the first priority on your list is what do you enjoy?

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Will Kutler
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1506
From: Tucson, AZ, USA
Registered: Feb 2001

posted 01-23-2005 07:03 PM

Well Jeremy

Maybe I should simperfy for you....

I have known many people who went to school to become Dr's or lawyers because thats were a lot of $$ is an/or thats what their family wanted them to do. But even though they earned $$$$, they were absolutly miserable because they could not stand those career choices.

As the old saying goes, "Money does not necessarily bring happiness!"

BTW Jeremy, not having $$ is a real lame excuse for not going to college. My tuition and expenses are covered through loans (subsidized and unsubsidized) and some university and Federal grant $$. Ya, I'm now in debt, but I am not worried. I keep up my grades, present a positive professional attitude, live honestly...so I am confident all will work out in the end.

Cheers

K

BTW, I can relate to Joshua Waaland, except that I am single. My personal experience has been that school can be exhausting and at times fraustrating, and sometimes you just can't wait until a particular class is over...but oooohhhh wat a sense of exhilarating accomplishemt when all that hard work pays off in the end!

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