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Topic: USL JFM20 Format Card Won't Select Digital

Gordon McLeod
Film God

Posts: 9532
From: Toronto Ontario Canada
Registered: Jun 99

posted 02-15-2005 10:37 AM

Several points Mark you should bear in mind
The chip in question doesn't have a bearing on the issue of this topic which a format card not switching. It is mostlikely related to the cmos logic which is generic and if one has proper desoldering tools can be feild repaired
The chips in question are a particular VCA/Level detector that is found in many products that has been discontinued by the manufacturer It was part of the SSM line of audio processing chips It was used in many high end audio processing devices used in both broadcast and consumer products all which face the same problem the source is gone

If one thinks this is unreasonable then why is it that I can't get a replacement LCD screen for my laptop that is only 3 years old the OEM maker of the screen is no more and since it turns out to have had a high failure rate there is no stock
In this case I have never had to replace one of the vca chips (except for a issue with highvoltage some one connected to the fader line) (not me by the way) in question so repair is usually related to the surrounding circuitry which can be troubleshooted

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Mark Gulbrandsen
Resident Trollmaster

Posts: 16657
From: Music City
Registered: Jun 99

posted 02-15-2005 12:51 PM

quote: Gordon McLeod
The chip in question doesn't have a bearing on the issue of this topic which a format card not switching.

Gord,
That issue was pertty well delt with a few posts ago. He has several choices as a result of the thread. I was answering Steve's post and this thread is a good place to bring up this issue. There is no real reason except to sell new JSD-80 digital processors as to why USL couldn't come up with newly designed replacement boards for those boards that require the obsolete chip. Heck, at least the basis for any new circuitry already exists in the new processor... all they need to do is take some of that design and create a new DSP matrix and NR cards and the format cards could be drastically simplified as I'm sure you would agree. Not only is it a logical thing to do but it is also good buisness to support customers that have supported you over the years. Dolby seems to have this philosophy with older units.

quote: Gordon McLeod
If one thinks this is unreasonable then why is it that I can't get a replacement LCD screen for my laptop that is only 3 years old the OEM maker of the screen is no more and since it turns out to have had a high failure rate there is no stock

As for your laptop just buy a used one on E-Bay for the part you need. You have more laptop problems than anyone I know of [Razz]

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Gordon McLeod
Film God

Posts: 9532
From: Toronto Ontario Canada
Registered: Jun 99

posted 02-15-2005 12:58 PM

Often it isn't viable to transpose technologys and in many cases not very simple or cost effective to do
again they do repair the cards for you which is more tan one can say about several cards from the double d ranch

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Clint Koch
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1435
From: San Luis Obispo, CA, USA
Registered: Feb 2002

posted 02-15-2005 06:46 PM

USL did not discontinue the JS-series to be able to sell the newer JSD-80L. In a perfect world we would still be producing the JS-series along side of the new JSD-80L. The new JSD-80L is priced less than the JS-series with more bells and whistles. USL still supports it's original CS-series that were manufactured in the early 80's. We will continue to support the CS-series, JS-series and JB-2 series for as long as possible. If anyone has questions on this you may e-mail me direct if you wish. Also Gordons response above is very accurate on the cost effective and transposing of technologies reasons.

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Mark Gulbrandsen
Resident Trollmaster

Posts: 16657
From: Music City
Registered: Jun 99

posted 02-15-2005 07:40 PM

quote: Clint Koch
Also Gordons response above is very accurate on the cost effective and transposing of technologies reasons.

Clint,
I certainly understand the obsolescence thing!! No question there as I come from a Broadcast background where everything RCA made for decades was obsoleted overnight by the take over of G.E. when they shut RCA down. The big problem I have here is that there are tens of thousands of the JS units out there and supplying "upgraded cards" as other manufacturers seem capable of doing seems like plain "good buisness" to me. Were there just a few thousand units that would be different and impractical.

Mark

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Gordon McLeod
Film God

Posts: 9532
From: Toronto Ontario Canada
Registered: Jun 99

posted 02-15-2005 10:27 PM

Again as I assume clint can confirm the chip in question has not had a failure issue to my knowledge so repairing them is not a big issue
Look at most of the cards for a cp200 logic are off the list and are repair exchange only
UltraStereo has provided excellent service for all there products including the CS serries processors in the past just as most manufacturers

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Mark Gulbrandsen
Resident Trollmaster

Posts: 16657
From: Music City
Registered: Jun 99

posted 02-15-2005 10:44 PM

Gord,
Where did I criticize the chips reliabilities, USL's repair abilities, or Dolby's? I don't recall complaining about them and I really have no complaints about them. You seem to miss the entire point that it is easily possible for a manufacturer to provide updated/upgraded cards if one wants to..... The quantity of those units in the field alone justifies it being done.

Mark

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Gordon McLeod
Film God

Posts: 9532
From: Toronto Ontario Canada
Registered: Jun 99

posted 02-15-2005 10:48 PM

One could also then justify making replacements for many items in the market place after there useful life span
Some of this is a decision a manufacturer sometimes has to make where to draw the line
I doubt if the Return on the investment would be worth while as the R&D into that would be very large

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Oscar Neundorfer
Master Film Handler

Posts: 275
From: Senoia, GA
Registered: May 2000

posted 02-16-2005 06:54 AM

Steve said:

quote: Steve Guttag
Anyone that is planning on making electronic stuff should be warned about not using Analog Devices...they will discontinue a chip as it is being brought out.

I absolutely LOVE Analog Devices. I absolutely HATE Analog Devices. How's that for contradictory statements?

AD makes some of the finest chips one can find. Their performance is usually first rate. I would almost always choose AD parts for my designs....

EXCEPT.... THEY DON'T KNOW HOW TO KEEP A CHIP IN THEIR LINE FOR MORE THAN A SHORT PERIOD OF TIME.

They have obsoleted so many chips in my designs over the last few years than I have lost count. The original MOD6 DSP matrix used an AD DSP processor chip that went obsolete one year after its introduction. OF course we could make a last buy, but then who wants to sit on inventory for possibly years.

And of course, the one obsolete chip that bit so many of us was the SSM2120P. This is (was) a dual channel level detector/vca ship that was at the heart of our NR system. Also, it was sometimes used in volume control appplications. The MOD6 used 5 and the MOD 7 used 6 of these parts. The MOD IIC uses 2.

We made a last buy of several thousand of these parts. They are now pretty much gone. If you can find surplus stock, the price is exorbitant.

I am now in the process of re-designing the NR around a different chip made by a company called THAT Corporation. It is definitely not a drop-in replacement.

I had to make a decision for a part used in the MOD 8. I ended up using an AD part because I could not find anything else that was exactly what I needed. Since this is fairly new part for AD, I will keep my fingers crossed that it will not disappear too. At least not in the near future. But like Steve said, "...they will discontinue a chip as it is being brought out." Sometimes you just can't win.

Another problem with chip obsolesence is that many through-hole parts are going away and are being replaced with surface mount parts. While they are functionally the same, they obviously will not just drop in where the old parts were.

SMART will continue to make every attempt to keep even its older models running, but as parts stock becomes scarce, this will become more and more difficult to do. Sometimes a card can be re-designed to replace an older card that uses obsolete parts, but this is not always a viable option.

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Mark Gulbrandsen
Resident Trollmaster

Posts: 16657
From: Music City
Registered: Jun 99

posted 02-16-2005 07:30 PM

quote: Oscar Neundorfer
I am now in the process of re-designing the NR around a different chip made by a company called THAT Corporation. It is definitely not a drop-in replacement.

Oscar,
Just keep an eye on THAT Company so Analog Devices doesn't also absorb THAT line of chips THAT are allowing you to redesign THAT noise reduction card..... THAT would suck!

Still you guys do get a gold star for keeping your stuff going and for designing new cards to keep older units alive and to allow upgrades. Keep up the good work!

Mark

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Matt Close
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 226
From: Hervey Bay, QLD, Australia
Registered: Sep 2001

posted 02-25-2005 04:53 AM

Well, anyone with a similar problem with USL equipment will be happy to note the following .....

Before I had even attempted to contact USL on this problem, Clint from USL had seen my post and e-mailed me. Good service [Smile]

We then traded e-mails on the problems I had and he provided many helpful suggestions. Upon my request I was also provided with technical documents on the cards AND this was all done is a very timely manner. It was almost as if Clint had nothing better to do than answer my e-mails [Wink]

... which I am sure is not the case, but I must say I certainly appreciated not having to wait for days to get replies as has been the case with other companys.

In the end I found the fault, which did turn out to be an IC. Clint kindly sent me a couple of replacement chips and also some spare relays for my EQ cards at no cost.... AND they were accross the Pacific virtually before I could even blink!

Kudos to Clint and USL for the customer service.

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