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Author Topic: Help! no sound from cyan track with Kelmar IR reverse scan Michael Schaffer "Where is the Boardwalk Hotel?" Posts: 4143 From: Boston, MA Registered: Apr 2002 posted 05-30-2005 03:12 AM                        quote: John Hawkinson SDDS seems to have its own special sets of problems (is it printing? Is it wear on the edges? Is it dirt migration?). Mostly printing. A really well-printed SDDS track will last until judgment day and beyond.  |  IP: Logged Brad Miller Administrator Posts: 17775 From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall) Registered: May 99 posted 05-30-2005 04:03 AM                     quote: Michael Schaffer A really well-printed SDDS track will last until judgment day and beyond. IF...it is properly taken care of during projection!  |  IP: Logged Matthew Jaro Film Handler Posts: 74 From: Gaithersburg, MD, USA Registered: Jul 2003 posted 05-30-2005 04:10 PM                        I wonder why Dolby didn't use both sides of the film for SRD? I know this would make the readers more expensive, but could that be the only reason? The current system does not have much bandwidth and relies on "masking" effects to appear to be 5.1 discrete. There are 5776 dots (fixels)in each Dolby square The matrix is 76x76. If no dots were used for the DD sysmbol, registration, and CRC bits, then the bandwidth would be 5776 (x 4 perfs per frame) (x 24 fps) = 554,496 bits per second = 69,312 bytes per second. A standard stereo CD has 44k bytes per second per channel (to provide a point of comparison). All of this to run 6 channels with good frequency response. It's amazing it sounds as good as it does.  |  IP: Logged Dave Macaulay Film God Posts: 2321 From: Toronto, Canada Registered: Apr 2001 posted 05-30-2005 10:09 PM                     It's not reasonable to compare the CD audio format with any compressed format. I think the CD audio specification was designed to waste space; they had ~700MB to use up and they couldn't allow more than 60 minutes of audio to fit into it or customers would surmise they were getting ripped off (I paid $20.00 for 45 minutes of music but I know the disc holds 12 hours worth!). A CD of 60 odd minutes of digital silence (ie every sample = zero) still takes up the whole 700MB. A lossless compression system could save it in a few bytes. Any honest data rate comparison should be between a good lossless compression scheme and the schemes used by SRD, SDDS, and DTS. This doesn't address sound quality. I think they all sound pretty good.  |  IP: Logged Randy Stankey Film God Posts: 6539 From: Erie, Pennsylvania Registered: Jun 99 posted 05-30-2005 11:45 PM                     I have to agree with Scott. When any kind of digital system fails, it's "All or Nothing". With analog sound, at least, there is a continuum of failure, between the extremes of which, there is still acceptable sound. If your theater is otherwise well-run and you have built up a good clientelle they will be tolerant of the occasional equipment failure whereby the show runs in mono or, maybe, at a lower volume level than normal. Some people will complain. Others will give you a "mulligan" because they know it's probably something really wrong that caused the malfunction. Now matter how you slice it, you can still stay open for business. With digital, you're talking about a horse of a different color! If your sound fails you COULD find yourself dead in the water! If your analog backup is working correctly, maybe your customers wouldn't even notice. If it wasn't for that, you'd be dead in the water! Out of business untill it's fixed! I have said it here before... And most people have Pooh-Poohed my for it but I'll take this opportunity to say it again: When pre-screening prints it is prudent to always screen in ANALOG SOUND! If your digital sound fails, you're going to NEED analog! If you are not an "All-Digital" theater you are going to need analog at some point. When/if that time comes you had better be able to rely on your analog soundtrack! If that track is bad, you're going to need to replace it our be out of luck! If you replace it soon after receiving the print, the distrubutors aren't going to question you asking for a new print. If you call for a replacement 2-3 weeks out, they are going to ask questions. Further, it's just a lot more hassle! Pre-screen in ANALOG! If your digital stops working, you are saved. If you move the print to a non-digital house, your ass is covered. If the ditital soundtrack(s) is bad you can still get a replacement print on the opening weekend but, at least, you'll have a good analog track to fall back on. I used to tell kids who screened prints that all the time but they didn't do it because they just wanted to hear the film in digital... just becasue digital is "better". I just said, "Waaah! Waaah! Waaah! Whine! Whine! Whine! You're not here to have fun watching a movie! You're here to do a JOB!!" I used to get a lot of looks like I just knocked their ice cream cones into a mud puddle! Even after scolding them, I'd go up to the booth and find then screening in digital. I would turn the digital processor off. They never knew the difference! I even remember one time when I got a report of "bad sound" in a screening right after I turned off the digital processor. The next day, I made that person order a new print. I told him, "If you screened that movie in digital you never would have known it was bad!"  |  IP: Logged Dominic Espinosa Phenomenal Film Handler Posts: 1172 From: California, U.S.A. Registered: Jan 2004 posted 05-31-2005 07:39 PM                     The idea of having a backup (analog) is that it should be a viable backup. You would think it unacceptable to use a trashed floppy as your "viable backup" of an important document when your hard disk eats the big one. A theater using SR for a backup format should have it tuned and routinely checked for proper opperation, even if they hardly use it, the audience shouldn't be able to tell the difference without looking for it. We can, but we're supposed to be able to.  |  IP: Logged Mark Gulbrandsen Resident Trollmaster Posts: 16657 From: Music City Registered: Jun 99 posted 05-31-2005 08:43 PM                     One thing that I find it hard to believe is that no one has incorporated a DC servo into the reverse scam readers yet to keep the LED bias at a constant level over its life spam I find it very amusing in this day and age that we still have to adjust and calibrate dolby levels at regular intervals. Today this should be automatic and done by the pickup itself! Mark  |  IP: Logged

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