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This topic comprises 3 pages: 1 2 3
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Topic: Simplex gate noise problem! -> OT AAIIs suck! No, JJs suck! No, AAIIs suck!
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Brad Miller
Administrator
Posts: 17775
From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall)
Registered: May 99
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posted 07-04-2005 12:34 AM
Mark, the AAIIs for film projection are about as overkill as driving a Hummer to the grocery store. They don't have to be that damned big and heavy to do the job.
Besides, every JJ I have seen has outperformed 35mm projection hands down over the various AAIIs I have seen. Also if the operator and setup technician knows what they are doing, then I wouldn't even say the AAII has much (if anything) over the JJ in terms of running 70mm. Plus parts for the JJ are readily available and do not cost so much that the theater has to shut down, most any tech can service them with ease, they don't weigh as much as 5 tanks or take up as much room, and they are easier to thread, not to mention the nonsense of precisely cueing the trap to open it (and totally fucking the drive if it should be opened during operation!!!) I also find the JJs to be much more forgiving on running damaged and shrunken film, and at least the JJ can handle a true 6000 foot reel, not this 23.5 inch oddity. A JJ can handle shorter focal length lenses, don't have the aperture 5 feet away from the port window, has the luxury of being able to open the door during projection without worrying about the door blocking part of the projected image, has easy mounting of a failsafe, etc, etc, etc. I could go on and on.
I've never worked with a Kinoton 35/70, but I can certainly vouch that they further blow away a JJ (and every other projector out there) on the screen.
I've said it before and I'll repeat it here, if the AAII was the best thing to ever happen to film projection, it would most certainly still be in production! So WHY do you love those things so much??? You've never actually posted reasons other than "built like a tank". Well, whoop-de-doo. ![[Roll Eyes]](rolleyes.gif) I'll take something reasonable any day. ![[Razz]](tongue.gif)
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Steve Guttag
We forgot the crackers Gromit!!!
Posts: 12814
From: Annapolis, MD
Registered: Dec 1999
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posted 07-04-2005 09:50 AM
Given damaged film, I'd rather run it on a AA2 than a JJ any day. I'm not the JJ's biggest fan...I've always considered them a bit of a b-grade projector. Their gear train was poorly designed...the film path a bit cramped. That said, they do 35mm VERY well...better than their C, and SA/DA counterparts. Most JJs have very poorly aligned pieces. It is not uncommon for the tension rollers in the mag penthouse (R31) to shift laterally as they move throughout their range due to imprecisely machined bearing receivers. Note the poor machining on the Century products is demonstratable throughout its history. No two are alike and to get things to align like mag heads and LED brakcets, one should really shim the parts to get precise alignment.
The JJ is "honored" with a scratch in its name. The term "JJ scratches" seems to convey a universal meaning. These being the ones caused by leaving the 35mm pad roller on the upper feed sprocket (in the projector head itself) and making the upper loop small enough that it will bump into the 35mm roller. It happens far too much. Long ago Century should have scrapped their rotaing pad roller assembly for the upper feed to avoid this.
But the JJ's history of film damage does not end there...The earlier form of film stabilizer on the upper portion of the gate (the two fingers that hold the upper loop against the tension bands) had a reinforceing ridge on them...the film will pucker into this ridge and cause scratching near every frame line...later designs had the fingers formed by folding the metal over and do not have this problem.
Below the gate there is a loop stabilizing roller (I think it is the RO-207) that has laid many a scratch right down the middle of the film (particularly 35mm)...it is slow and mischievious. The centered milled area is too shallow. If the film has any curl on it and the roller has any wear, the film will curl into the roller. Anyone that has JJs should look at this roller...if the middle portion of the roller has about a 1/4" wide polished/shiny section...you too have been scratching film. Change the roller and keep an eye on it.
Moving on to the soundhead (R50)...the 70mm bypass guide needs to be precisely aligned to avoid the film puckering into the middle of the guide...different vintages of guides have different amount of closeness to the film in the middle
Lastly on the JJ (though the issues with it go on) the Magazines that were made for the JJ were like the AA2 and ALL 35/70 projectors in that they were designed for 22" reels. That was the reel size for 70mm, by design. When one considers that 70mm release film was twice as wide, 25% longer (30 fps) and had magnetic sound (the added weight of say 3 22" rolls of magnetic tape), it was heavy enough and lasted 20 minutes. I suppose an arguement could have been made that when it ran 35mm it should have accommodated longer reels but back in 1954...this was not so much a concern.
As to the AA2 being made today...it was switched to the DP75 for cost reasons. No one that produced the DP75 proclaimed that it was a BETTER machine...but more affordable.
As to the cost of the AA2 to maintain...much too much is made about this...I my career, the AA2 has been the least expensive machine to keep up. It requires virtually nothing. A pair of tension bands every year or so and a change of oil and that is about it (okay, sprockets when they wear out). Maybe every 30-years or so one should overhaul it to cut down on the leaks.
Many people claim that the AA2 was designed as a 70mm machine and then was adapted to run 35mm...that simply is not the case...it was designed to run both, right out of the shoot. Each section (gate, mag head, optical head) were designs of their own.
There are certainly non-great things about the AA2...the 10-track head...why? Why would one think they would wear the 6 track and 4 track sections similarly? Most other manufacturers beat them on that one. Why the stabilizer rollers are the same diameter and same weight flywheel? That causes the two to beat off each other and causes some flutter. But their 35mm optical soundhead was light-years above their compitention with reverse scan long before it was in vogue.
I agree with Brad on the mile long focus rack...it is nice and precise but severly limits one on lens sizes...then again back when it was designed...projection booths were miles away from the screen. You couldn't buy a short lens if you wanted one. Many a Brenkert has a magna-com used for its flat lens to get the picture out of the machine.
As far as picture goes...I like the AA2...I've seen a couple that couldn't do 35mm well (Lucasfilm's pair come to mind) but the units I've had the pleasure to work with...did VERY well.
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Mark Gulbrandsen
Resident Trollmaster
Posts: 16657
From: Music City
Registered: Jun 99
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posted 07-04-2005 09:54 AM
Brad,
Heck, I know of several people that live around here that enjoy driving their hummers to the grocery store...... ![[thumbsup]](graemlins/thumbsup.gif)
For starters JJs have damaged MORE 70mm film than any other projector on the planet. Now I know that you would blame that on the operator, but I blame it on poor design and cramming too much into too little space. Clearly the JJ should have had a larger main frame and a 70mm film path seperate from the optical sound reproducer. Yes, later models had a botched attempt at that with the bypass rollers. A well designed projector is forgiving of who operates it. The design is also REALLY just a glorified A model 35mm Century and nothing more. In fact it is the same identical raw casting when it starts out being machined. Even the star wheel diameter is the same as its 35mm counterpart and made from pretty questionable material and is not hardened very well.
What do I like about the DP-70??????
1. Indestructable oil pump and the best designed oil circulation system of any projector ever built. This is why they last for ever.
2. The DP-70 is the ONLY projector to actually have a REAL oil filtering system including magnets inside both the oil filter and movement to catch metal particles. No other machine has this. Ths X-L oil screen is not a filter.
3. The DP-70 holds a large amount of oil and also contributes to its almost indefinate life.
4. The quality of the metals, the excellent hardness that was obtained on them without them getting brittle, the conically ground star and cam, and the art like precision of the imtermittent which can easily last in excess of 50 years without ever being touched.
5. The TRUE non-magnetic 70mm gate runner and bands.
6. The best mag penthouse of any 70mm projector.
7. Its mass.
8. Does accept down to 32.5 mm focal length lenses.
9. Easy 24/30 fps speed change
10 The lightest runnung tension of any film trap for both formats.
11. Rarely if ever breaks down as long as the oil is changed.
12. Can produce a picture as steady as any other projector if set up properly.
13. Very heavy duty motor drive system which is easily adaptable to other types of drive systems, its massive motor mount.
14. Micrometer focus lens mount thats the equivelent to a small lathe bed.
15. Very efficient orthagonol type gear train with over 1.5" diameter verticle shaft.
16. Direct drive take up(no belt)for those that use reels.
17. Much more forgiving to improper threading. None of the nonsense guiding fingers or arms in the way to scratch 70mm film as there is in the JJ and Simplex 35/70. The 70mm film path is kept away from the 35mm optical sound head and its parts.
18. Extremely well built and simple 35mm optical sound reproducer thats located away from the 70mm film path. No 70mm film ever passes by a 35mm roller.
19. Very open - roomy and uncluttered interior thats VERY easy to keep clean. The white interior is a definate plus.
20 Most light efficient of all the 35/70mm projectors due to the double speed single blade shutter.
21. Most efficient water cooling of any projector ever made. Heavy duty aperature plates that don't warp under high heat levels.
22. Easy to repair and requires less tools once one understands it. Very roomy interior to work on it when needed.
23. Well designed base and xenon lamphouse table.
24. Having your OWN parts manufactured is no real big deal and not all that expensive. We have had made or make the following parts for them...always in stock.... and far more reasonable than Kinotons prices.
35mm gate bands, 35mm VKF feed spockets, 35mm intermittent sprockets, 35mm pad rollers, 35mm constant curve runner, xenon lamphouse table, one piece 35/70 ecentric lens adaptor barrels, vari speed motor drive kit(direct drive by the way, no belts in out rebuilds!),Auto jog system for vari-sped kit to stop machine in threding position(adaptable to other machines),reverse scan sound head mods, split lateral guide roller for sound head, 35/70 DTS reader mounting plate with tensioning rollers from original penthouse to go in place of mag penthouse.
Hope this helps!
Mark
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