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Topic: Sony DFP-R2000 Problem

Dominic Espinosa
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1172
From: California, U.S.A.
Registered: Jan 2004

posted 09-22-2005 04:33 AM

...And if you can't figure it out, give the guys over at Cinematech a call. They're pretty damn useful:
888-250-SDDS (7337)

--Dom

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Steve Guttag
We forgot the crackers Gromit!!!

Posts: 12814
From: Annapolis, MD
Registered: Dec 1999

posted 09-22-2005 09:26 AM

The back up Center and S/W channels are not compressed any more than the normal ones, as it has been explained to me.

You should NOT see the LC and RC channels suddenly pop up when in DCM (Digital Conealment Mode). The Back up channels (aka "prime" channels) are indeed a mono sum but there is also data to have the appropriate level of the prime channel play out of the various speakers however I think it is only on a 256 level scale. Thus, listening to just the back up channels will simulate the original but it is a bit choppy sounding and it is a mono mix.

The way the concealment works is that the level coming out the channels should not be dramatically different than main channels. Thus, when a splice goes through it doesn't call attention to itself. If you merely block one "eye," you will definately hear the level jumps...it is meant only for a momentary back up, not a continual thing. Very few people pick it off when a splice goes though. Minde you, a spilce will have all chanels go though Digital Concealment though not at the same time since SDDS staggers the tracks.

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David Stambaugh
Film God

Posts: 4021
From: Eugene, Oregon
Registered: Jan 2002

posted 09-22-2005 12:01 PM

quote:
Mind you, a splice will have all channels go though Digital Concealment though not at the same time since SDDS staggers the tracks.

Does this happen regardless of how carefully the splice is made or what kind of splicing tape is used? The SDDS shows I've seen have never had detectable dropouts around the reel-change splices (lab splices are another story). The first "Lord of the Rings" comes to mind. I didn't notice a single dropout during the entire 3 hours. "Spider-Man" was shown in SDDS-8 and I didn't notice any sound anomalies in it. If it's going into concealment mode, it seems to be pretty much inaudible, at least in those limited examples. Admittedly there's only 1 theater around here with SDDS.

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Steve Guttag
We forgot the crackers Gromit!!!

Posts: 12814
From: Annapolis, MD
Registered: Dec 1999

posted 09-22-2005 04:45 PM

Yes, every splice will result in Digial Concealment on both sides of the film but not at the same time (due to the staggared tracks). So yes, you've been fooled too by the Sony DCM method.

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Mark J. Marshall
Film God

Posts: 3188
From: New Castle, DE, USA
Registered: Aug 2002

posted 09-22-2005 05:48 PM

quote: Steve Guttag
The back up Center and S/W channels are not compressed any more than the normal ones, as it has been explained to me.

quote: SDDS DFP-D2000 Operation Manual Page 2(E)
In addition, the following four channels of compensation signals are read from the opposite sides of the film.
P side

Rmix (mixed R, RC, and SR)
SW' (compressed SW)
S side

Lmix (mixed L, LC, and SL)
C' (compressed C)

quote: Steve Guttag
You should NOT see the LC and RC channels suddenly pop up when in DCM (Digital Conealment Mode).

We do indeed see the LC and/or RC channels come alive on the LED display when one side is failing, but only on the eight channel setups. Are we the only ones that have that "feature"?

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Steve Guttag
We forgot the crackers Gromit!!!

Posts: 12814
From: Annapolis, MD
Registered: Dec 1999

posted 09-22-2005 07:15 PM

Mark...the manual does claim as you say. i will therefore go with that since my information is strictly from memory in a class once upon a time.

As to your experiences with LC and RC turning on in DCM...I doubt that your unit is unique and it probably does that on all of them...however, again, as it was explained to me...in DCM, the prime channel is indeed a mix of the three channels (Left or Right) and that contained within the data is a rough level for all three so, in theory, if LC contributed zero to the L' back up track, it should play back the L' signal at zero...apparantely theory and reality have drifted a bit. It is pretty moot now that the format is essentially dead from a development standpoint. However it performs is how it will perform so long as your unit is in operation (don't be looking for upgrades).

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Chase Taylor
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 175
From: Troy, Alabama, USA
Registered: Mar 2001

posted 09-24-2005 07:33 PM

I followed the instructions and got the results that were shown on the form, but still have the same problem. Any other ideas?

Chase Taylor

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Monte L Fullmer
Film God

Posts: 8367
From: Nampa, Idaho, USA
Registered: Nov 2004

posted 09-25-2005 01:56 AM

Edited post. A tech needs to come there and really tune up that condition of yours then. Sounds like it's beyond your limits in searching out this problem.

[ 09-25-2005, 12:07 PM: Message edited by: Monte L Fullmer ]

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Aaron Sisemore
Flaming Ribs beat Reeses Peanut Butter Cups any day!

Posts: 3061
From: Rockwall TX USA
Registered: Sep 1999

posted 09-25-2005 04:04 AM

quote: Chase Taylor
I followed the instructions and got the results that were shown on the form, but still have the same problem. Any other ideas?

Call Robbie Hidalgo at Cinematech TOLL FREE at 888-250-SDDS I believe he is ext 705 but if you sit thru the whole voice message he will tell you to wait or press a number to get him directly.

Explain the problem to him, he will do his best to talk you thru it right over the phone.

-Aaron

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Michael Schaffer
"Where is the
Boardwalk Hotel?"

Posts: 4143
From: Boston, MA
Registered: Apr 2002

posted 09-25-2005 11:10 PM

quote: Chase Taylor
I followed the instructions and got the results that were shown on the form, but still have the same problem. Any other ideas?

Yes: change over to projector 2 input and see what it does then. The symptoms you describe are very strange. The problem does not seem to be a reader problem, but how the data from the tracks are handled.

I don't remember how you change over, it may be as simple as connecting two pins on the automation input as with Dolby processors, or you may be able to do it from the software. It's been too long for me to remember, so you have to look it up yourself.

The level information for the backup tracks is supposed to work - in theory - exactly as Steve described. But I have seen the effect of the Extra channels waking up in DCM mode myself many times.

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Steve Guttag
We forgot the crackers Gromit!!!

Posts: 12814
From: Annapolis, MD
Registered: Dec 1999

posted 09-26-2005 06:29 AM

To switch to projector 2, connect pin 2 to pin 14 on the automation connector. It will make the switch after the programmed delay (settable in software but standard at 7 seconds).

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Chase Taylor
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 175
From: Troy, Alabama, USA
Registered: Mar 2001

posted 09-26-2005 07:24 AM

Thanks guys! I'll give it a try.

Chase Taylor

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