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Topic: Help identify these intermittent parts

Mark Gulbrandsen
Resident Trollmaster

Posts: 16657
From: Music City
Registered: Jun 99

posted 11-28-2005 07:02 PM

quote: Will Kutler
there was no indication of any special balancing, such as material removal on the intermittent flywheel

Actually many of the older projectors had balanced flywheels. Motiograph comes to mind. when machining fomr solid stock balances are not as prone to be way off like machining from a casting.

BTW: One Micron = One micron = 1/25,000 of an inch or 1/1000 of a millimeter. This is the reason I hold the Phillips equipment in such high regard.... anyone working to 1 micron tolerances and that can hold that tolerance part after part really knows his stuff. I'd like to see a high volume place hold tolerances like that today... it would be VERY spotty and costly.

quote: Monte L Fullmer
Yes, and I agree totally with this. But unfortunately where I don't have the equipment available to test and redo such measures, it was just the obvious route for replacement and get this XL machine up and running.

Monte,

Thats why dealers have loaner movements on their shelves.... Instant repair so to say.... sometimes the same day if a Greyhound bus heads your way(which it does). I'd be willing to bet that that movement woulda run fine with new gears and some "clean up" work.

Mark

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Will Kutler
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1506
From: Tucson, AZ, USA
Registered: Feb 2001

posted 11-28-2005 07:07 PM

Hi Mark

I did not write clearly. Yes, the flywheels themselves are balanced, and is noticable on various projectors - and those flywheels are seperate parts. But I have not seen an actual star or cam balanced themselves through machining.

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Louis Bornwasser
Film God

Posts: 4441
From: prospect ky usa
Registered: Mar 2005

posted 11-28-2005 07:08 PM

Andy Marglin says he saw stars & cams made on "12 foot tooling" at the old Long Island Century facility.(outgrowth of Western Electric.) Definately not high tech back then and the work, though tedious, was really excellent. (Early "C's" and Supers had rock steady pictures, too.) Louis

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Mark Gulbrandsen
Resident Trollmaster

Posts: 16657
From: Music City
Registered: Jun 99

posted 11-28-2005 07:33 PM

Agreed Louis.... Its not necessarily the machines that are being used its the people running them and their amount of experience that matters far more. Those old C stars and cams also far outlast todays stuff....

Mark

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Monte L Fullmer
Film God

Posts: 8367
From: Nampa, Idaho, USA
Registered: Nov 2004

posted 11-28-2005 11:13 PM

quote: Mark Gulbrandsen
Thats why dealers have loaner movements on their shelves....

Yes, and with you showing me where you work at and the loaner parts located at your occupation, I keep forgetting about this.

Just something to remember next time a drop of any sort that causes a downed screen (if I get the clearance to do a loaner procedure..if you know what I mean..LOL).

-thx Monte

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Louis Bornwasser
Film God

Posts: 4441
From: prospect ky usa
Registered: Mar 2005

posted 11-29-2005 08:55 AM

Part of the blame is EPA. LaVezzi started having some problems about the time that old style hardening procedures were declared off limits. Now most parts threoughtout the world are "surface hardened." Louis

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Will Kutler
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1506
From: Tucson, AZ, USA
Registered: Feb 2001

posted 11-29-2005 06:35 PM

Louis

Please explain EPA limits on heat-treating materials? Where did you get this info?

One of my current engineering classes is Applied Materials Science. Conducting heat-treat,hardness and microstructure analysis on a variety of metals including: A2 Tool Steel, 17-4 stainless steel, 1020 carbon steel, copper berylium, yellow brass alloy, 6-4 Titanium, Waspaloy and Inconel 718. Also a Jominy test on 4140 Steel.

Regarding Surface Hardening Treatment (Case Hardening) "Many applications require high hardness or strength primarily at the surface, and complex service streses frequently require not only a hard, wear-resistant surface, but also core strength and toughness to withstand impact stresses" Machinery's Handbook.

But case hardening can also be a method to reduce heat treat time and costs by not requiring a full "soak" at temp.

Not sure what you mean by "old style" methods of heat treatment? Each alloy has its own "reciepe(s)" for heat treatment depending on what needs to be accomplished. Its all about metalurgy.

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Mark Gulbrandsen
Resident Trollmaster

Posts: 16657
From: Music City
Registered: Jun 99

posted 11-29-2005 07:37 PM

Louis,
I guarantee you that hardening exccuse is a crock of you know what!! As Will mentioned its possible to harden to the core... just takes longer... I once had a batch of shutter shafts made up to go with the hardened verticle shaft... makes a Century virtually indestructable... The hardening process for them took just over 4 days. They were hardened to about an RC-62 which is even harder than the LaVezzi verticle shaft,then ground their length by Boston Centerless too a .0001" tolerance. You could pound a nail inn with onone of these shafts.. they wouldn't bend nor would there be any dings in it.... I gave a few away to visiting friends and other dealers and used the rest in rebuilds.

Get your self a nice used Rockwell harness tester and check parts both new and old... you'll find out in short order how crappy the metals and the projector parts in use today are. I think that alot of the quality in older parts stems from the steel just being alot better back then and the care that went into making them!

quote: Will Kutler
microstructure analysis on a variety of metals including: A2 Tool Steel, 17-4 stainless steel, 1020 carbon steel, copper berylium, yellow brass alloy, 6-4 Titanium, Waspaloy and Inconel 718. Also a Jominy test on 4140 Steel

Will, don't leave the tuballoy out of that list..... [Big Grin]

Mark

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Monte L Fullmer
Film God

Posts: 8367
From: Nampa, Idaho, USA
Registered: Nov 2004

posted 11-29-2005 11:49 PM

quote:
I think that alot of the quality in older parts stems from the steel just being a lot better back then and the care that went into making them!

Seems like this is the trend in any manufacturing policy and procedure nowdays.....forgetting about quality.

Like the the "M" steel that Henry Ford used to use for his Model "T"' frames: cut a piece out of that frame and you have a nifty portable anvil. Who can do that now...

-Monte

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