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Topic: Why do Aussie distributors not care about DTS?

Jesse Skeen
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1517
From: Sacramento, CA
Registered: Aug 2000

posted 12-23-2005 01:11 AM

I had enough problems just at one theater getting DTS discs that I completely gave up on DTS as a viable format and figured the name really stood for Do They Ship? [Razz]

I kept a list of films that were played with analog sound just because the discs came late or never came at all, it got to be pretty long. It happened most often with used prints shipped from other theaters, but there were a good number of brand-new prints of first-run titles that came with no discs also.

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Lindsay Morris
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 233
From: Darlington, WA, Australia
Registered: Sep 2002

posted 12-23-2005 02:26 AM

Seems to be plenty of DTS discs available here in WA and I am told that one of those films had to have some cuts made for OZ audiences which apparently meant that a new DTS disc had to be done. Maybe that is the reason for the DTS disc delay.
For what I understand of the DTS system is that even if a large chunk of film is removed the system can pickup where the sync should be and skip back into sync pretty quick.. maybe only a slight blip into optical mode.
So not exactly sure that film cuts would neccessarily mean a new DTS disc/s and being an optical stereo site ONLY don't really have a clue on the finer points of DTS.
But I have noticed that when playing DVD's on the home theatre and I can choose between DTS and Dolby Digital the DTS sounds better to my ears. So if I was DTS equipped I would be hunting those discs out to.
When the junkings go on I see piles of DTS discs going into the bins and on a couple of occasions I have been able to grab some to use as parrot scarers to be hung on strings in my fruit trees.
Use enough and they work well flashing away in the sunlight and upsetting the pesky birds. Neat recycling [thumbsup]

We actually get some fruit now.
Lindsay

Edit, Just started making up Wallace & Gromit Were Rabbit for New Years eve shows and guess what??? packed inside was the DTS discs.
Wonder if they would better in the trees terrorising the local parrots... they did get rid of the Were Rabbit. [Big Grin]

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John Koutsoumis
Master Film Handler

Posts: 261
From: Melbourne, Victoria, Australia
Registered: Aug 2003

posted 12-23-2005 06:08 AM

David, the session of "Godzilla" at the Jam Factory was in SR-D but I was told that the only reason it wasn't in DTS was that the discs had not arrived. I did see "American Pie" there and remembered the DTS flying logo trailer at the start. Not as bad as Crown Casino though where we were told that the film was showing in both SR-D and DTS at the same time in same single theatre!! [Confused]

I mention that it can only be one or the other at any given time, but the dude begged to differ. And no the film was not showing on 2 screens. Crown Casino was put on my never again list a long time ago.

In regards to no surround it may have been Doncaster but don't qoute me on it, I had a discussion about it with a Village projectionist during miff this year. He mentioned that lack of amplifiers would be the reason.

quote: David Kilderry
John, for the record Jam Factory is one of the only locations I know of that boasts all three digital formats; Dolby Digital, DTS and SDDS.

Yes SDDS in the famous Cinema 10?? It's a shame that processor was moved from the VCC. That's all that place had going for it. I saw a tonne of films there in SDDS [thumbsup]

. Good presentation at the VCC has sadly gone down memory lane [Frown]

. Then again where can you good presentation at all nowadays.
Also in regards to the 100% digital, that's great but if it fails (and it did often) you're up shit creek. A lot of the time the SR sound was awful. I experienced this at Jam Factory, Sunshine and Crown Casino. And the reson I was given for this by one manager... well it was absurd to say the least.

quote: David Kilderry
I am staggered that Hoyts not only has very few digital sound screens, until recently they still had many screens not red led equipped! Didn't BVI state they would refuse to supply those theatres that did not upgrade almost a year ago???

I'm staggered people go to Hoyts full stop [puke]

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Peter Castle
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 220
From: Wollongong University, NSW ,Australia
Registered: Oct 2003

posted 12-23-2005 06:46 AM

We are on a University campus, screen once weekly, and have all three digital systems. We do get discs regularly but do not use them often, prefering to rely on the best digital sound SDDS. We had a print of "Flightplan" this week. Someone had written analog on the head of reel 1. Sure enough, SR-D failed throughout the film, but we were running in SDDS anyway - not one problem - but could have used the DTS as backup.

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Mark Gulbrandsen
Resident Trollmaster

Posts: 16657
From: Music City
Registered: Jun 99

posted 12-23-2005 03:06 PM

I don't think its the film companies to blame completely. DTS isn't known for having the best of customer relations, nor support. I doubt the film companies don't even want to deal with them or try to work things out because of DTS's piss poor attitude.

Mark

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David Kilderry
Master Film Handler

Posts: 355
From: Melbourne Australia
Registered: Sep 1999

posted 12-23-2005 08:54 PM

You are testing my memory now John. Doncaster upgraded to Dolby CP 65 from Eprad Starscopes in around 1998, it coincided with the Warner Bros Studio store opening there. It always had amps and speakers for L,C,R and surround from that time and at least a good period before that.

Frankston was the last Village Melbourne location to run just centre and surround with Eprad Starlets in all four theatres. Cins 1 and 2 were upgraded to Dolby CP65 in around 2002 and L and R channels were added with amps to both screens. Cins 3 and 4 had closed at this time. Later Cinema 1 was upgraded to DTS, this equipment remained I understand when it was taken over by Peninsula Cinemas. They operate it today as a discount house with day and date films, against the two new multiplexes in the area run by Village and AMC. It is a war down there between the three companies.

All Village theatres from my memory at least operated surrounds, even going right back to the 1980's. They mostly operated Eprad Starlets and Starscopes with Super Starscopes in the 70mm houses. All are now Dolby.

Some Cinema Europa theatres have been accused of having no surround channels, but they were cleverly hidden into the velvet diamond patterns in the walls.

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John Koutsoumis
Master Film Handler

Posts: 261
From: Melbourne, Victoria, Australia
Registered: Aug 2003

posted 12-24-2005 02:13 AM

Quite a memory you have there David. I'm just going by what was mentioned to me by the projectionist. Maybe he was referring to an earlier time. They have moved to DTS now it seems. I'll stand corrected if they did in fact have surrounds.

quote: David Kilderry
Some Cinema Europa theatres have been accused of having no surround channels, but they were cleverly hidden into the velvet diamond patterns in the walls.

Heh I noticed that first time I went there back in 1998 or maybe it was 1999, to see "PI". You just need to look a little closer. There's one auditorium there that's quite good. The surrounds may have been hidden but they are present none the less. Can't say the same for other art house cinemas, maybe excluding Cinema 1 & 2 at the Kino Dendy.
Shame Village did not install more SDDS playback instead of DTS.

I hope all those with problems getting discs for DTS solve the issues.

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Brian Guckian
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 594
From: Dublin, Ireland
Registered: Apr 2003

posted 12-31-2005 06:59 AM

Bottom line is that if the film is made in DTS, i.e. the format is one of the film's release mix formats, then you should get the discs - period.

Surely, there is some sort of contractural obligation to supply the format if it is selected at the mix stage.

It's ludicrous really. Imagine a film made in SR.D, but when you get the print there's no data between the perfs because someone couldn't be bothered.

Or, you book a 3-D film (say, Sharkboy and Lava Girl) and the distributor will not supply the glasses!

And I don't buy the line that DTS are poor with customer relations, etc. They've got some really great people there, and we always get discs in this part of the world.

Nope, IMHO it goes back to the way the industry has gone generally, with theatrical presentation becoming marginal, and the real action being with the DVD release. I mean, how many DVDs have their DTS tracks omitted by mistake or because someone "forgot" to encode them? Come on!

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Bobby Henderson
"Ask me about Trajan."

Posts: 10973
From: Lawton, OK, USA
Registered: Apr 2001

posted 12-31-2005 12:42 PM

I'm not too surprised DTS would be good about getting discs to theaters in Ireland. The fellows who developed the APT-X100 codec in DTS Theatrical, as well as the DTS CAC codec in the home system, are from Ireland.

At any rate, the discs ought to be getting to theaters just about anywhere.

I think the problem lies in distributors and other film depots having old, inaccurate records. For the first couple years after our Carmike 8 theater opened in Lawton, many distributors still had this city's theater listings wrong. The 8-plex came dangerously close to not getting "Independence Day" like it was supposed to. I personally called Fox' Dallas office and confirmed they did not even know our 8-plex existed, much less it having two THX-certified DTS-equipped auditoriums (this was 1996).

Once everyone got their records straightened out the theater received discs on just about every release. There's only two movies that come to mind that missed discs since then: "The Edge" (the print had time code, but I don't think it ever had DTS discs anywhere) and "LA Confidential" (I was pretty peeved about that one, but great movie anyway).

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Brian Guckian
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 594
From: Dublin, Ireland
Registered: Apr 2003

posted 01-05-2006 02:49 PM

Well that's good to know Bobby - it's a small world! [Smile]

Is there some way the distributors can be informed if a site opens with, or upgrades to DTS so they know to send them discs?

Or - considering the relative costs of making and duplicating discs compared to the overall P&A budget, would it be only slightly more expensive to send discs with all prints irrespective of whether the receiving venue can play the discs or not?

(This goes back to my suggestion that the DTS disc should in effect be seen as a physical part of a DTS timecoded print).

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Bobby Henderson
"Ask me about Trajan."

Posts: 10973
From: Lawton, OK, USA
Registered: Apr 2001

posted 01-05-2006 10:47 PM

quote: Brian Guckian
Is there some way the distributors can be informed if a site opens with, or upgrades to DTS so they know to send them discs?

Yes. But I don't think it has been happening. That would involve cooperation, a tiny amount of paperwork and/or a phone call to share a little information.

Examine any of the movie sound format web sites, or even the THX web site and you can find inaccuracies on equipped theater listings. Some theaters now closed may still be on the list while newer ones never seem to get on the list.

To complicate things further, movie theater chains will relocate equipment and not even get things straight with the booking office and other record keepers about which hardware is installed where.

What DTS needs is this: a full accounting on all DTS players. By serial number they should have: 1. the player's current location, 2. the player's status (at least let them know if a player broke and was retired from service).

That information needs to be provided when the player is installed, or relocated to another theater, given any major repairs or removed from service.

Overall, the idea sounds simple. Unfortunately, there's little way to force theater operators to provide correct information or make them bother to even do it at all. One would think the theaters would want their information to be current -provided the people working at said theater location gave a damn about show quality. Sadly, that's not always the case. Then you have the level of office politics that has a chance to screw up the situation at the higher management levels above the theaters. Some circuits may not want any outside party knowing just how many of their theaters are equipped with DTS, Dolby Digital -or not equipped with any digital sound format at all.

In the end, the only way to get DTS discs in any kind of reliable basis is by making noise about it. Call DTS, call the booking office, call your district manager, be a pain in the ass about it -but not quite so much that it gets you fired.

I think one factor in some theaters not getting DTS discs is they don't bother to let anyone know the discs are not being shipped to their theater.

I don't know if the practice still goes on at the mall theater in my town (since I rarely ever visit that theater), but in the past it was a lucky thing if they would even bother to load the DTS CD-ROMs into their DTS-6AD units whether they received the discs or not.

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Nick Scott
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 133
From: nsw austrailia
Registered: Nov 2004

posted 01-06-2006 06:20 AM

DTS is just a thing of the past and we have to make DTS aware that we dont really care anymore,just like Dolby Digital says its the sound of the future coz it is, there is never any issues with Dolby its on every add, trailer and feature. When DTS realises that no one is buying there equipment, no matter what it does or how good it is its still in the back of the consumers minds that they may not get discs so its kind of off-putting especially for independent cinemas where there chance to impress the customers is everything.
DTS fails to care, Distributors fail to care and Film depots do aswell so why do we??
Bottom line is get rid of your DTS units and install Dolby Digital in your cinemas its honestly less of a headache -easier said than done tho.

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Alex Cross
Film Handler

Posts: 34
From: Eccleshill, Brafdord, West Yorkshire,
Registered: Dec 2005

posted 01-06-2006 08:43 AM

Hi,

I'm not sure how it quite works for Aus, but in the UK, we used to get a lot of used prints. We didn't always get the DTS discs due to fact the previous cinema couldn't be bothered, or forgot to put the discs back with the print after playing it. We contined complaining, and complaining. We now get multipile discs... 4 prints of Narina (AKA Hernia at our place), and only 1 DTS screen......

Alex.

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Bill Langfield
Master Film Handler

Posts: 280
From: Prospect, NSW, Australia
Registered: Apr 2001

posted 01-11-2006 12:25 PM

Sounds like a Vic/QLD problem to me.

I work in NSW.

At an Arthouse 6plex (1xSRD 3xDTS 2xSR) and a GUO 16plex (14xSRD 2xDTS)

90% of the prints show up with DTS discs.

That said, even if the discs don't arrive, and I know this is a bad attitude, but I just think 'to hell with it' the film can run without it.

I do have a bitch, and the discs almost always get sent out a few days later.

Bill.

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