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Author Topic: need advice on new platter systems Matt Fields Jedi Master Film Handler Posts: 545 From: Ohio, United States Registered: Jun 2005 posted 01-01-2006 10:25 AM                     My 2 cents... buy the Christies (AW3, not the dreaded AW2) if you can afford them.  |  IP: Logged Brad Miller Administrator Posts: 17775 From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall) Registered: May 99 posted 01-01-2006 10:30 AM                     quote: Gordon McLeod The only times I have seen the strong payout plugs damaged like that is when they get dropped or forced into the socket which is not the design fault but the idiots using it I disagree. A piece of equipment that is meant to be used many hours a day for years shouldn't have such a weak point made out of plastic! If that part was made out of metal, it wouldn't be a problem. As it is, it's a lousy design.  |  IP: Logged Richard May Phenomenal Film Handler Posts: 1057 From: Floral Park, NY USA Registered: Aug 2004 posted 01-01-2006 10:49 AM                     I agree the plug is a lousy design, but if the people handling them would not constantly drop them and slam them down, they would not break. I do like the christie platter. I, however, like the strong better. I have had less problems with the strong platters then the christies. Personally, I have found srtong platters to be more reliable. Sorry Brad  |  IP: Logged Scott Norwood Film God Posts: 8146 From: Boston, MA. USA (1774.21 miles northeast of Dallas) Registered: Jun 99 posted 01-01-2006 11:45 AM                        Just get the AW3. You won't regret it. They are easy to time, don't damage film, and the electronics are easy to swap out in the event of problems. They are also by far the easiest platters for trailer changes. The also use aluminum decks and should be fine for mag-striped 35mm and 70mm film, if you should have the need to run it. There should be plenty of used and/or rebuilt units available given the number of theatres that have closed in the last few years. I haven't worked with Strong platters. I have worked with the Super Platter and dislike it. The LP-270 is OK, but the old horizontal MUT is lacking. The new vertical MUT is probably much better, but I haven't seen one in person.  |  IP: Logged Gordon McLeod Film God Posts: 9532 From: Toronto Ontario Canada Registered: Jun 99 posted 01-01-2006 12:58 PM                     Funny that plastic part has not had much of a history of damage in the many strongs I service when they hae been dropped the theatres seem to look at replacing the operator with the plug at the same time it seemms to cut down on repeat damage  |  IP: Logged Richard May Phenomenal Film Handler Posts: 1057 From: Floral Park, NY USA Registered: Aug 2004 posted 01-01-2006 02:13 PM                     My point exactly.  |  IP: Logged Monte L Fullmer Film God Posts: 8367 From: Nampa, Idaho, USA Registered: Nov 2004 posted 01-01-2006 02:21 PM                     quote: Brad Miller As it is, it's a lousy design. But unfortunately with bad designs, we have to work with what we've got and are working with at the time. Yes, I really like the AW3R's brain due to the fact being all metal and all it has to to is meet up is a slanted cam mechanism to work together when plugged in - no electronics. But, where I have to work with the STRONG brains, I've dealt with, and trained that these brains ARE to be handled in a certain manner and NOT to be abused in any fashion or form. Thus, I haven't replaced a plug on a brain in two years, and the one that did, is that the wire came out of the pin and I didn't have any spare pins to crimp back on the wire, thus I went ahead and replaced the entire assembly (the plastic itself was still in very good condition with just the outer edge slightly worn...) It all stems down from PROPER training procedures...nothing else. Yes, I love the AW3(R) units and will give my eye-teeth to go back in working with them, but in reality I like the STRONG better since the maintenance factor is so much less and parts availability factor is so much more (and simpler) on the STRONG than with the Christie. Yes, the STRONG is basically a pretty crude platter design-one variac to control all decks and a crude motor adjustment to change the platter rotation speed (not like the trimpots and cam adjustments as with the Christie and other methods of timing for the other manufacturers..), plus with flimsy decks that will bend even by looking at them...but, they do the job needed and any layman operator can operate these units. AW3(R), being as the much better platter, is a more complicated platter to work with in a booth with layman operators since the timing factor includes both a mechanical and electronical timing procedure that must be done together. Why you see more used Christies than Strongs out there in the market today... ..3 cents worth in on this one.. thx-Monte  |  IP: Logged Brad Miller Administrator Posts: 17775 From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall) Registered: May 99 posted 01-01-2006 02:23 PM                     I've got AW3s from the 70s still running perfectly on all of their original parts. Strongs that are 3 years old are already having failures. Yes it's true the Christies aren't for lazy people who can "plug it in and leave", but I find that people who claim the Christies are not reliable don't truly know how to set them up or don't want to be bothered with any extra effort to do so. If you want a platter that you just drop it in place and walk off of the job, go for the LP270. Not only is it more reliable than the Strongs, but it treats the film better. Those who are concerned about the presentation and proper handling of their films buys Christie. There really is no comparison when you stop making your decision based upon the price tag. As with just about anything else, you get what you pay for. Monte, you see more Christies on the used market these days because people USED to care when they built new theaters. Now they just go for whatever is the cheapest. This is why they hire minimum wage high school kids to run the booth and provide next to no training. It's all about saving a buck. Screw the presentation.  |  IP: Logged Louis Bornwasser Film God Posts: 4441 From: prospect ky usa Registered: Mar 2005 posted 01-01-2006 02:34 PM                        Both Christie and Strong (Potts) can be excellent. On the Christie the operation is smooth. However, you must know what you are doing to repair/adjust it. As such, it would serve Film-tech people well. On the Strong. it is simple, and responds well to those of limited knowledge. Many times the service man is not called since failure modes are obvious. The Super Platter is a variant of the Strong since Bob Potts is the common point of its design. So, it would seem, you buy based on what level you can deal with. BTW: I have seen AW-3's sold cheap and replaced with Strongs. This is caused totally by the lack of proper service availability. Louis  |  IP: Logged Monte L Fullmer Film God Posts: 8367 From: Nampa, Idaho, USA Registered: Nov 2004 posted 01-01-2006 02:37 PM                     quote: Brad Miller This is why they hire minimum wage high school kids to run the booth and provide next to no training. It's all about saving a buck. Screw the presentation. ...kind of a bleak future we're facing, isn't it? What's really sad is some circuits, large or small, buy Christie, install Christie, swear by Christie and worship Christe, but have all of this "goofball" training done on them to where the presentation results doesn't give the equipment any credit due that they were designed to be..as you mention of better film handling. Scratching prints on a first or second pass with the special showings or one important screening just doesn't work with "goofball" training - no matter what brand of equipment there is handling the film. It seems like these circuits, mentioned above, are fully DEPENDING on this one named brand to justify the better film handling and presentations... - and not look at the other side of the coin which is proper training...(which is a nevenending story here to tell...) ..a go-figure thing at times... thx-Monte  |  IP: Logged Brad Miller Administrator Posts: 17775 From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall) Registered: May 99 posted 01-01-2006 02:50 PM                     I think Louis summed it up pretty well. Monte - there are just as many theaters buying the Christie package as there are the Strong package. I haven't noticed either to get any better training than another. What I have noticed is that the presentation quality DOES seem to depend on the equipment selected. Overall Christie package booths put on a better quality presentation than a Strong package booth. Looking at projector models as an example, out of everything Strong makes, the Century is bar none the easiest projector to learn how to thread, and it also handles film the best out of everything that have to offer. Their second best option is the Simplex. A little more difficult to learn to thread, but not by much (mainly the soundhead). Unfortunately the soundhead design leaves much to be desired in terms of film damage, so a theater running Centurys in general can run a print twice as long as a theater running Simplexes with exactly the same care (without film cleaners) and achieve the same on-screen print quality. Strong's third option is that Apogee projector, which upon initial observation looked intriguing...but in reality it sucks much, much ass. Whoever thought that the lower loop should be about as big as a pencil is nuts. Plus if you make that lower loop just a TAD bit too big, you end up with HORRIBLE scratching!!! What's worse is even if the projector is perfectly threaded, a misframe and rack of the framing will suddenly start laying down these horrible scratches. Fair warning to anyone even considering buying this stupid machine...unless you have truly professional operators, stay away! If you want to buy Strong, buy the Century. Christie only has 2 models, the P35GPS and the Cinex. The P35GPS is insanely easy to thread (probably bar non the easiest on the market), whereas the Cinex is more difficult. As such film damage tends to happen moreso in Cinex theaters over P35GPS theaters. For platters, comparing the Strong vs. the Christie, there are two things to consider. First I see misthreads on the Strong frequently, as not all of their rollers have keeper rollers on them. Also some bonehead decided the top deck needed it's own special threading path (kind of like the bottom deck on a Kinoton). In a booth lacking training, I see both top rollers threaded over and then the film run down to the lower two decks, thus scratching the film quite nicely! I also see platter scratches coming from Strong platters because if the motor mount is adjusted a little bit too high or there is a warp in the deck, Strong's final roller has no height adjustment. There is also no backtension on breakdown, which means cinch scratching and occasionally the operator will stop the MUT too fast and the deck will continue to spin out of control, flinging film across the booth! As such, the Strong platter is quite easy to scratch film with. On the flip side, if the Christie isn't properly timed (don't read the manual, do it my way), it can sling longer movies off of the deck easier than the Strong can. But these platters suffer NONE of the other problems that the Strong do, and the slinging can be fixed by either timing them properly or using a safety ring if you can't seem to figure out the timing procedure. Indeed if you have a staff that is even halfway professional, the Christie is by far the better choice. I suppose the monkey booths can keep buying the Strong.  |  IP: Logged Richard May Phenomenal Film Handler Posts: 1057 From: Floral Park, NY USA Registered: Aug 2004 posted 01-01-2006 02:58 PM                     One big problem I find with the christies is that the operators have their own idea of how fast the decks should spin. So what do they do? They play with the pots not knowing what the hell they are adjusting. I don't have that problem with strong platters. With very little adjustments to do on strongs, very little goes wrong with them. As far as caring about presentation and film handling, I do and have had no problems with the strong platters. As for parts needing to be replaced, I have replaced many more parts on christies than strongs and it's not because I don't know how to set them up. Unless following the instuctions and film-tech's tips are wrong.  |  IP: Logged Monte L Fullmer Film God Posts: 8367 From: Nampa, Idaho, USA Registered: Nov 2004 posted 01-01-2006 03:00 PM                     So, let's go back to the original question: needed advice on new platter system - It's kinda like going to find a new car. We go to three different dealerships (since we've read testimonies of three platters - LP-270's, A(AP)3s, and the AW3(R) - and we hear three salesman express the quality of their cars and how this one certain car works. NOW, if possible, is for Corey to go to three theatres (or, better yet, a parts/equipment distributor) and "test drive" these three platters (if available) mentioned. This will allow him a choice, first hand, which one would fill his need. -Monte  |  IP: Logged Richard May Phenomenal Film Handler Posts: 1057 From: Floral Park, NY USA Registered: Aug 2004 posted 01-01-2006 03:03 PM                     Monte, don't get the extended warranty. It's a rip off. LOL  |  IP: Logged Steve Guttag We forgot the crackers Gromit!!! Posts: 12814 From: Annapolis, MD Registered: Dec 1999 posted 01-01-2006 03:12 PM                     Brad...of the many Strongs we have in service...we now have had exactly one SCDC payout mech. cease to payout properly. The rest are running very well. As to the plug on the Strong payout...yup it is a weak point, no denying that...though we've never had one so mangled as the one you've shown. I would never modify a Strong payout with the Christie roller as I think the Christie rollers are part of their weak points. Without a doubt...of the platters in our service, the most amout of damage is happening on the Christie's...they need more attention for timing, have far more component failures (rollers, drive tires with never a good batch unless you buy Wolk, LED modules that are all over the place, the same with the photocells. The white posts on the payouts are notorious for losening up and gouging out the aluminum deck...the list is almost endless). If money was no object, I would get the Kinoton ST200E...period. The Strong SCDC has done very well for us and has a reputation around here for being very reliable and NOT damaging film. We have one customer that is getting ready to rip out a Christie AW35 and put in a Strong for the excessive issues they have with the Christies vs the Strongs they have. I would also not discount the LP270 and it is very easy on the film.  |  IP: Logged

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