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Topic: CP500 Serial Data Port

Monte L Fullmer
Film God

Posts: 8367
From: Nampa, Idaho, USA
Registered: Nov 2004

posted 01-25-2006 12:20 AM

That's what I'm using now is a Inspirion 6000 loaded 'loaded for bear' for multimedia (DVD dbl layer burner, love the graphics with the 15 inch monitor, et.al. just got rid of media center edition and installed XPPro 2 myself .. for less than 850 bucks..) and definitely missed the serial port from when I had a Micron XKE 266 notebook that I gave away due to the display was getting bad due to the TFT was separating and colorlines were popping up everywhere.

..and lighter too than the Micron.

-Monte

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Trevor Bailey
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 113
From: Woonsocket, RI
Registered: Jun 99

posted 01-25-2006 09:16 AM

I'm currently using the Dell 600m with no problems. On the issue of build quality, the 600m is produced by one of the same contract manufacturers that makes Thinkpads.

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Bobby Henderson
"Ask me about Trajan."

Posts: 10973
From: Lawton, OK, USA
Registered: Apr 2001

posted 01-25-2006 06:28 PM

Monte, $850 is pretty inexpensive for the Inspiron 6000 -although the prices for some options such as the dual layer DVD burner have really come down in price.

I paid just under $2000 for mine several months ago (price after a 30% discount). But that's with almost every top end option. I just upgraded the memory from 1GB to a maximum of 2GB of 533MHz DDR2 SDRAM. Notebooks are going to need to start supporting 4GB or more of memory with mainstream acceptance of 64-bit operating systems on the way.

As for RS-232 serial ports, they're a dying standard. The shift to 64-bit will kill off legacy support for a lot of those RS-232 connected devices.

We're constantly hounding our electronic message center providers about this because some are still building product using the RS-232 and RS-485 serial standards. Not only are they probably going to be broken by 64-bit operating systems, but they also have a bandwidth that is downright puny for today's data throughput needs (such as moving live video). USB 2.0, Firewire and various wired and wireless Ethernet standards have left those old serial standards in the dust.

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Joel N. Weber II
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 115
From: Somerville, MA, USA
Registered: Dec 2005

posted 01-29-2006 03:21 PM

I guess the other issue you run into is cable length issues, in applications where a five foot cable isn't going to suffice. USB just doesn't directly support the sort of cable lengths you can get with RS-232 and RS-485. (You can buy USB extenders that send the data over other signaling schemes, though.)

And ethernet on copper supports 100 meters but may still be somewhat more expensive; I haven't figured out what the cost of putting ethernet into an embedded device ends up being.

Microchip makes a microcontroller chip that costs around $6 or $7 that will act as a USB full speed (the 11mb or 12mb speed, not the high speed offered by USB 2.0) device, as well as otherwise having about as much compuational power as the average 8 bit Apple II computer. (They also make another part for around $3 that only does low speed USB, and there are some competitors with similar products.) It's hard for me to imagine how that wouldn't be cost effective for a new design of a niche market device that doesn't need long cables.

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Scott Norwood
Film God

Posts: 8146
From: Boston, MA. USA (1774.21 miles northeast of Dallas)
Registered: Jun 99

posted 01-29-2006 04:11 PM

What does RS-232 have to do with 64-bit systems? I've had 64-bit machines (Sun workstations) for years, and they all have had DB25 serial connectors and are perfectly happy to talk to any serial device.

Does anyone make USB-based terminal servers?

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Brad Miller
Administrator

Posts: 17775
From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall)
Registered: May 99

posted 01-29-2006 04:15 PM

I am about to buy a new laptop, as I'm tired of flipping between screens of the CP650 program and the D2 program. (Why oh why must these programs not offer any sort of scaling???)

I was looking at the Dell Inspiron 9400...but now I am reminded about the RS232 issue. I need 2 USB ports for the D2. Recommendations?

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Steve Guttag
We forgot the crackers Gromit!!!

Posts: 12814
From: Annapolis, MD
Registered: Dec 1999

posted 01-29-2006 05:49 PM

I've been known to come to the site with 2 or even 3 laptops to have all the displays going at one (one for the CP, one for the R2 and one for the DSP processor, if present)...this is one of choice rather than need...I don't mind lugging up the extra laptop case, or two to have the greater screen space...however, while in econo mode, I will do the screen swapping thing.

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Monte L Fullmer
Film God

Posts: 8367
From: Nampa, Idaho, USA
Registered: Nov 2004

posted 01-29-2006 06:02 PM

My Laptop and the 9400 has and should have 4 USB ports - two on he side and two on the back.

Course, you could easily get a USB hub that goes into one port, and you'd have four more slots bringing a total of 7 ports....OR get four-four port hubs and really maximize your connectivity.

quote: Bobby Henderson
As for RS-232 serial ports, they're a dying standard. The shift to 64-bit will kill off legacy support for a lot of those RS-232 connected devices.

...in as well as the PCMCIA slot ...

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Joel N. Weber II
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 115
From: Somerville, MA, USA
Registered: Dec 2005

posted 01-31-2006 08:41 PM

Scott, what do you mean by a USB based terminal server?

It's occuring to me that I've also worked with a DEC Alpha that ran NetBSD; I think we actually had a dumb terminal plugged into its serial port for its console. I'm pretty sure that was a 64 bit machine.

The thing that's really killing RS232 is the assumption that people are moving to USB (and that they actually are to some extent). That, and the transition towards internal modems that must have happened 10 or 15 years ago or something, and the move from serial to ps/2 to USB for mice (though the mouse I've been using in the course of making this post is a serial mouse, just because there's nothing stopping me from using it and it's the best mouse I had lying around).

The 5-6 year old motherboards I'm using both came with two RS-232 ports, and the ATX board makes both ports externally visible by default. (The AT board requires you to install cables to the back of the case, because of limitations of the AT form factor.) It's looking likely that the next motherboard I buy will only have one RS-232 port built in at all, and that I will once again have to manually run a cable to the back of the machine.

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Daryl C. W. O'Shea
Film God

Posts: 3977
From: Midland Ontario Canada (where Panavision & IMAX lenses come from)
Registered: Jun 2002

posted 01-31-2006 10:34 PM

Keyspan makes a 4 port USB terminal server for about $100. You could also build your own for the same price using a Linksys WRT54-GS or similar access point.

I haven't tried the Keyspan TS out yet as no worthy devices have abandoned RS-[24]xx ports.

quote: Joel N. Weber II
It's looking likely that the next motherboard I buy will only have one RS-232 port built in at all, and that I will once again have to manually run a cable to the back of the machine.

Maybe someone else could run the cable for you.

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Bobby Henderson
"Ask me about Trajan."

Posts: 10973
From: Lawton, OK, USA
Registered: Apr 2001

posted 02-01-2006 01:27 PM

My Inspiron 6000 has four USB 2.0 ports. I haven't used any more than 2 at a time. The notebook also has a Firewire 400 port on the side as well. I'm going to buy a Lacie Firewire 800 port PC card for a new external hard drive I'm also going to buy at the same time.

quote: Scott Norwood
What does RS-232 have to do with 64-bit systems? I've had 64-bit machines (Sun workstations) for years, and they all have had DB25 serial connectors and are perfectly happy to talk to any serial device.

The ports themselves may work. The attached devices may not. It may not be much of an issue in UNIX, but most RS-232 and RS-485 attached Windows devices are older legacy devices with 16-bit device drivers.

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Daryl C. W. O'Shea
Film God

Posts: 3977
From: Midland Ontario Canada (where Panavision & IMAX lenses come from)
Registered: Jun 2002

posted 02-01-2006 05:43 PM

quote: Bobby Henderson
The ports themselves may work. The attached devices may not. It may not be much of an issue in UNIX, but most RS-232 and RS-485 attached Windows devices are older legacy devices with 16-bit device drivers.

True for cheap consumer devices and the not-so-good commercial vendors, but I've got dozen's of industrial hardware and drivers/applications for 32-bit systems and some for 64-bit systems.

It's not a technology problem, it's a cost issue. USB (which is serial after all) is cheap and barely reliable. It's not suited for anything more than consumer and light commercial applications. If you need a high speed solution for video boards or what not, RS-485 drivers that support 35mbps are available for about a $1.

If you really want to avoid serial devices, and don't need to run up to 1200 metres, there's always industrial ethernet (with STP cabling and hardened devices).

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