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» Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE   » Operations   » Film Handlers' Forum   » 'Lawrence of Arabia' in 70mm @ The Heights - 3/17 and film jam a the Ziegfeld (Page 2)

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Author Topic: 'Lawrence of Arabia' in 70mm @ The Heights - 3/17 and film jam a the Ziegfeld Mark Gulbrandsen Resident Trollmaster Posts: 16657 From: Music City Registered: Jun 99 posted 03-25-2006 08:59 AM                     There has always been something wierd about the LOA tracks.... even the old mono 35mm prints sound awful... the film never had any low end response and sounded like it had an EQ curve that was from another planet. I don't know if early solid state equipment is to blame but the original tracks are surely to blame. If the originals were good the restored version would also sound good. Dave S., As for other older films all one need hear is the 70mm mag tracks to West Side Story, Patton, Sound Of Music, Mad Mad World, any 3-strip Cinerama track, or even an old 30fps print of Oklahoma to re-affirm that these old tracks can be magnificent and give todays tracks a run for their money. The thing missing from the old tracks is the annoyingly used sub bass channel in todays formats and film mixes... thank god! Mark  |  IP: Logged Per Hauberg Jedi Master Film Handler Posts: 883 From: Malling, Denmark Registered: Jul 2000 posted 03-27-2006 06:42 PM                        quote: Paul Linfesty Keep in mind that LOA was originally mixed with only three stage channels. Hey, Paul. -Where does this come from ?? Why so, in the crowned days of 70mm ? BTW: For reissue, Denmark only experienced the first generation 70mm mag dolby sr of LOA. Sound quality was beautiful, but mix was already ruined by then (early nineties, I believe) - putting every bit of dialoque into the center channel, instead of useing all channels, as I remeber it from the original 1962-prints. And yet, Mr Spielberg claimed, LOA has never sounded better. -Against better knowledge, I'm afraid. Per /Still living on the memories  |  IP: Logged Paul Linfesty Phenomenal Film Handler Posts: 1383 From: Bakersfield, CA, USA Registered: Nov 1999 posted 03-27-2006 09:19 PM                     Per, I've read this from a number of sources, including a reproduction of the post schedule in the book Lawrence of Arabia by L. Robert Morris and Lawrence Raskin. I think full 6-track dubbing equipment hadn't been introduced yet to GB, so this method was employed (tricking the 3 stages up to 5 when sounding the 70mm prints). Lord Jim used the same technique.  |  IP: Logged Dan Lyons Jedi Master Film Handler Posts: 698 From: Seal Beach, CA Registered: Sep 2002 posted 03-27-2006 11:03 PM                     quote: Bill Gabel The Ziegfeld Theatre starts their 70MM engagement on Friday. It will be a DTS soundtrack version. Anyone know how many DTS 70mm prints of LOA were made? It seems another disaster has happened during one of those shows. From Cinema Treasures , near bottom of page. "A GREAT SUNDAY NIGHT AT THE ZIEGFELD - My parter and I attended the 7:30 screening of Lawrence of Arabia on March 25. Everything was great; sound and presentation, spectacular. Shortly after the beginning of Act II, the film broke and burned. Five minutes later, the manager (sadly, I don't know her name) came out to inform us that Marvin could not fix the problem and offered us passes to return at a later date. That was good customer service. Suddenly, a gentleman sitting two seats away from us stood up and announced, "I can help fix it." With the audience cheering, he and a few other projectionists in attendance went up to the booth and fixed the problem. Ten minutes later, to more cheers, the movie resumed. The gentleman sitting next to us returned to his seat with the piece of film that broke. To top is all off, we were still given passes to come back. That was EXCELLENT customer service." What the hell??? Broke??? Are the new prints on polyester stock? Someone is claiming the "print was old and full of splices". When were the DTS prints struck? I wouldn't call anything in 70mm DTS "old". A faded red mag print could be called old...  |  IP: Logged Bobby Henderson "Ask me about Trajan." Posts: 10973 From: Lawton, OK, USA Registered: Apr 2001 posted 03-27-2006 11:53 PM                     Since the DTS 70mm prints were struck for the 40th Anniversary release, that would date them at 2002. My guess to the cause of the problem was a brain wrap (assuming the show was run from a platter). Polyester film doesn't "snap" easily, just jamming up instead, trying to torque shit over in the booth until the film finally melts in the lamphouse to relieve the tension. I could be wrong though.  |  IP: Logged John Pytlak Film God Posts: 9987 From: Rochester, NY 14650-1922 Registered: Jan 2000 posted 03-28-2006 08:03 AM                        With a film jam, polyester film can "break" in several ways: 1. The sprocket teeth can rip through the perfs 2. A tear started at the edge or at a perforation can propagate through the film 3. The film can stretch If you try to "break" a polyester print with your bare hands, it likely will not tear or break. A length of 35mm polyester print has enough tensile strength to tow an automobile. Yet, if you start a cut from the edge with scissors, you will find the film tears by hand quite easily.  |  IP: Logged Steve Scott Phenomenal Film Handler Posts: 1300 From: Minneapolis, MN Registered: Sep 2000 posted 03-28-2006 11:47 AM                     The only splices in the Heights' print were between reels. There was no visible film damage, save what looked like negative damage. How sad to hear.  |  IP: Logged Robert Harris Film Handler Posts: 95 From: Bedford Hills, NY, USA Registered: May 2003 posted 03-29-2006 03:22 AM                     The audio on Lawrence was mixed as three track stereo, with a single effects track at the rear, used a handful of times throughout the film. In 1988 more balanced tracks were created for channels 2 and 4, as opposed to the earlier sounding mix going from 4 to 6 track during the creation of prints. The current DTS prints are derived from a Chace-ized clean-up, which is not fully reprentative of the original, although some defects within the original recordings were eliminanted. The original magnetic master, which was on Zonal stock, had a nasty habit of clotting heads every 10-15 feet and was not used for the restoration. The best surviving audio was derived from the 4 track print master, which had well over 120 runs on it. Frequency was not what it may have been in 1962. All original magnetic recordings and mixing elements were junked in 1970. RAH  |  IP: Logged Bill Gabel Film God Posts: 3873 From: Technicolor / Postworks NY, USA Registered: Jan 2002 posted 03-29-2006 03:55 PM                     quote: Bobby Henderson My guess to the cause of the problem was a brain wrap (assuming the show was run from a platter). The film was run from a platter, but it was not a brain wrap. It was a splice that opened up right below the intermitted and wrapped around the sprocket. It was a used print with a lot of splices. The theatre is equipped with two Century JJ's, one set-up for 35mm and the other set-up for 70MM (with the 70MM DTS reader) and an AW-3, plus a Digital projector.  |  IP: Logged Mathew Molloy Master Film Handler Posts: 357 From: The Santa Cruz Mountains Registered: Nov 2000 posted 03-29-2006 05:05 PM                     Sounds like a simple problem to me. Why would the manager cancel the show saying that it couldn't be fixed?  |  IP: Logged John Walsh Film God Posts: 2490 From: Connecticut, USA, Earth, Milky Way Registered: Oct 1999 posted 03-29-2006 05:13 PM                     I would wonder why a person in the audience had to help. To go from, 'the problem could not be fixed' to being onscreen 15 minutes later seems strange (unless the Ziegfeld's policy is anything taking longer than five minutes is considered 'lost'.) Not knowing the exact circumstances, I don't want to sound critical, but it would be interesting to know. I also don't think that just giving passes out to return later is good customer service. Again, there may be more to the story, but if not ...  |  IP: Logged Mark J. Marshall Film God Posts: 3188 From: New Castle, DE, USA Registered: Aug 2002 posted 03-29-2006 05:20 PM                    I was in NYC on business on Mon and Tue, but I missed LOA. The day I went to the theater, they were closed because they were installing a new DLP projector, and preparing for the VIP premier of Ice Age 2 that night. Bummer. I did get to tour the theater though, which was nice. I believe LOA ends tomorrow (Thursday).  |  IP: Logged Brett G. Sherris Film Handler Posts: 36 From: Northport, NY 11768 Registered: Jan 2006 posted 04-08-2006 11:07 PM                        Quick note... The same DTS print of LAWRENCE is currently running at the South Bay cinema in West Babylon, Long Island, NY. According to the manager, the first two reels after the intermission have been replaced by Columbia due to the damage done to the print at the Ziegfeld a few weeks ago. B.  |  IP: Logged John Wilson Film God Posts: 5438 From: Sydney, Australia. Registered: Dec 1999 posted 04-10-2006 04:07 PM                     The first TWO reels after intermission??? Cripes! When you're running 70mm (AND LOR to boot) SURELY you'd be careful enough (and experienced enough) to know there's a problem before it pummelled TWO reels of the damn thing! But then again, it was ready to be cancelled due to the problem...until of course a REAL PROJECTIONIST came to the rescue. What's the setup at the Ziegfield anyway? How many screens and how many 'operators'?  |  IP: Logged Bobby Henderson "Ask me about Trajan." Posts: 10973 From: Lawton, OK, USA Registered: Apr 2001 posted 04-10-2006 05:57 PM                     There's just one screen at the Ziefeld; about 1100 seats in the auditorium. Plenty of world premieres have been held there. I don't know about the number of operators. But it is pretty embarrasing when a premiere-class movie theater in Midtown Manhattan has a snafu that trashes a rare 70mm film print.  |  IP: Logged

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