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Author Topic: Automating JSX1000 to switch to digital with DA20 Aaron Garman Phenomenal Film Handler Posts: 1470 From: Toledo, OH USA Registered: Mar 2003 posted 03-29-2006 04:29 PM                     Again, blurry but maybe a little more helpful. See the green and black on the right side? The green is the changeover for the NCM and the black is a ground. On the left, RED connects to STEREO, BLACK to E, and GRAY to DIGITAL. There is a PURLPLE wire hanging there on the left that was in NONSYNC. Would that help, even though we no longer use the nonsync for sound? AJG  |  IP: Logged Jason Miller Expert Film Handler Posts: 241 From: Little Rock, AR, Registered: Mar 2004 posted 03-29-2006 05:42 PM                    Is there a P2 card attached to this or just a relay across the motor to select Projector 2 on the processor. Is the other side of that gray wire hooked to the DA20? The reason I asked about non-sync, is that the changeover close should select non-sync (hopefully by automation already, otherwise with a relay). Then when the motor runs out, if there is a P2 card, the processor will switch to projector 2 and STEREO. the reason to select NS would be to keep the tailout from going through the system and damaging (possibly) speakers. if there isnt a P2 card this gets more difficult. but regardless of being able to fix the endshow problem, the startshow problem can be resolved by finding a wire that connects STEREO on the automation to the the STEREO on the processor. when the automation sends that pulse on changeover open, the DA20 (which is ALSO hooked up to STEREO as well as DIGITAL) will sense an analog format has been selected and will autoswitch to digital if data is OK. You said there was a cable going from the automation output on the DA20 that ended in spade connectors on the Processor right?  |  IP: Logged Aaron Garman Phenomenal Film Handler Posts: 1470 From: Toledo, OH USA Registered: Mar 2003 posted 03-29-2006 06:29 PM                     Not sure about the relay. The other side of the gray wire is hooked into the DA20. Currently, in the picture of the backplane of the Ultra Stereo, there are TWO wires connected to the STEREO automation input. The RED one, from the DA20 and a BLACK one, that connects to the CHANGEOVER (this prevents switching on the format card when NCM is running). Also connected to the automation inputs are a BLACK wire on E (which is a ground?) and a GRAY wire which is CONNECTED to DIGITAL/EXT. Those two wires, along with the RED one go right back to the DA20. The only other wire, the GREEN one, is what allows the NCM or PROJECTOR 2 to have sound. So if I run another wire for this ground, what connects to what? Do I need to get into the console? I wish I had a better camera, sorry all. But thanks for bearing with me. AJG EDIT: Maybe this will help in locating things The red box are the automation inputs. The green box is where the changeover wire runs to, and controls for a remote fader. The wires were highlighted to the best of my ability. Forgive me for not knowing photoshop!  |  IP: Logged Darryl Spicer Film God Posts: 3250 From: Lexington, KY, USA Registered: Dec 2000 posted 03-29-2006 07:33 PM                    Aaron, Take a look at the other processors in the building. Do any of them have a wire that goes to the Non-sync on the automation terminal. The system may need that wire briefly. They may have that thing wired up so that when the film tails out of the failsafe it switches to projector number 2 on the preamp. What I am thinking is that the wire for Non-sync being hooked up it will pulse Ultra stereo processor to cover up the noise associated with tail out and then when the failsafe drops the system switches to projector #2 and back into stereo. One of those loose wires that are hanging should be hooked to the digital/ext so when the Projector pulses at dowser open it puts the processor in digital mode. Thus also sending the signal needed for the DA20 to activate.  |  IP: Logged Aaron Garman Phenomenal Film Handler Posts: 1470 From: Toledo, OH USA Registered: Mar 2003 posted 03-29-2006 09:25 PM                     A loose wire from the DA20 or a loose wire from the other bundle? AJG  |  IP: Logged Jason Miller Expert Film Handler Posts: 241 From: Little Rock, AR, Registered: Mar 2004 posted 03-29-2006 09:50 PM                    what is at the other end of the wires connected to projector 2 optical inputs? do they go to some sort of circuit board?  |  IP: Logged Aaron Garman Phenomenal Film Handler Posts: 1470 From: Toledo, OH USA Registered: Mar 2003 posted 03-30-2006 07:57 AM                     Yes, there is a circuit board that connects to those optical inputs. AJG  |  IP: Logged Jason Miller Expert Film Handler Posts: 241 From: Little Rock, AR, Registered: Mar 2004 posted 03-30-2006 10:08 AM                    Ok. then you have what is called a P2 card. the P2 card was developed to take a 120 volt signal (from accessory cicuit or slide projector) and pulse projector 2 and STEREO on power up. when the P2 card powers down, it is supposed to release to projector 1 and pulse noin-sync. that is depending completely on how it was wired up of course. what you need to do, is find the wires from your automation that go back to your processor. hook up a wire to STEREO and a wire to NS (nonsync). then the automation will switch the processor on changeover open to STEREO if it already isnt (more on that later). and will switch the processor to non-sync on changeover close. switching to nonsync will eliminate the tailout noise and make sure the DA20 switches back out of detect. without being able to trace wires in your theatre, I couldnt promise the purple in one place was the purple in another. you will have to actually make sure they are the same wire. the DA20 needs to have wires hooked up to STEREO, nonsync, and DIGITAL on the processor (and ground.. and yes E on the processor is ground). the DA20 uses these wires to switch formats as well as monitor if any other equipment does as well. the P2 card most likely changes to projector 1 when the motor starts right? if it does, if you hook up the "R" output on the P2 card to nonsync, then the processor will switch to NS when the P2 card powers down. when the changeover opens, it will switch back to STEREO. if you notice the sound system playing the heading garbage at the start of the movie then you have the same problem as the tailout. the P2 cards should also have a wire from "P" to STEREO. this wire will switch the processor to STEREO when the card powers up. if the automation has nonsync hooked back up, then when the changeover closes the processor will switch to NS until the motor stops. the P2 card will switch it back to STEREO in projector 2. have I lost you yet? you asked earlier why there was a P2 card instead of just using non-sync. There was a decision made to get the intermission content to play in matrix instead of just 2 channel. I wont get into the politics of that or express opinions. this thread is to help you get your sound automation to work correctly.  |  IP: Logged Aaron Garman Phenomenal Film Handler Posts: 1470 From: Toledo, OH USA Registered: Mar 2003 posted 03-30-2006 11:51 AM                     quote: Jason Miller have I lost you yet? Kind of, but not really. There are two boards I know of that are new in the system. One is on the side of the sound rack, and it has 2 RCA phono plugs coming from the PC running the NCM. That card then sends 4 wires (2 for left channel and 2 for right channel) to the optical inputs on the Ultra Stereo processor. The other card is inside the console, but I have not taken a good look at it. I think there may be a new relay in there too, but not exactly sure. I go in tonight, so I'll take a look at things, maybe try some stuff, and report back. Thanks for all the help everyone. I also hope this helps Darryl, as you said you all are getting NCM soon. It is so nice not to have to change rolling stock all the time. I LOVE THAT! AJG  |  IP: Logged Jason Miller Expert Film Handler Posts: 241 From: Little Rock, AR, Registered: Mar 2004 posted 03-30-2006 12:46 PM                    That card witht he 2 RCA jacks and wires going to proj2 optical, as well as some wires going to your processor changeover and format is the P2 card. We still need to check on wires going from automation to processor. make sure the purple you see down there is the purple you see behind the processor. I have had a lot of experience hooking up those cards to USL and Dolby prcoessors. I hope I can help.  |  IP: Logged Aaron Garman Phenomenal Film Handler Posts: 1470 From: Toledo, OH USA Registered: Mar 2003 posted 03-31-2006 12:46 AM                     Ok, here's the deal. The P2 card, the one that takes the RCA plugs and then sending audio to the optical in on the Ultra Stereo, has NONE of the automation connections, well, connected. In addition, there is no POWER going to the board. Further more, the CHANGEOVER and GROUND (green and black from above) are connected to a relay inside the console. Off of that, it was hard to follow the other wires connected to it, as it was a jungle inside that console. Only reason I know those green and blacks go to the relay is because I looked inside another console and they had decided to use a handy dandy yellow jacket on that bundle of wire. So, to say it bluntly, I'm stumped! AJG  |  IP: Logged Jason Miller Expert Film Handler Posts: 241 From: Little Rock, AR, Registered: Mar 2004 posted 03-31-2006 11:18 AM                    ah... wow... maybe there was some issue with using the automation parts of the P2 card. is there a way you can post a picture of the P2 card to make sure we have the right card? the problem with just using a relay across the motor, is that all it does is toggle between proj1 and proj2. without having some other control to the format functions, it was wired to stay in STEREO all the time. which, as you can hear, makes starting and ending the movies all that more entertaining. I guess if the tailout and heading noise isnt too much a deal, you should be able to get away with just getting a wire from STEREO on the automation to pulse STEREO on the processor. that will alert the DA20 to a status and it will autoswitch from there (still assuming you have the right cards in the DA20 and it is set on auto-digital CP55 or CP65). if you have the P2 card, we can try the normal wiring for it to see how the automation reacts. lets see what it looks like.  |  IP: Logged Aaron Garman Phenomenal Film Handler Posts: 1470 From: Toledo, OH USA Registered: Mar 2003 posted 03-31-2006 12:18 PM                     The wires coming from the automation outputs on the left I just added and tried hooking up to the ultra stereo automation inputs. It didn't work, and the DA20 still wasn't acting as it should. So minus those wires, that is what the board looks like on all our installs. Also, what controls do I have on the DA20 for autodigital? All I know of is the processor selector on the front of the unit, and we have it set on 1 (CP55) on this auditorium. The two other Dolby houses are set for a CP65 (2) on that dial, but one only one has a problem switching to digital. In fact, the Dolby house that does work has an actual board connected to the automation inputs and has no extra wires compared to the other installs and it works just fine. AJG  |  IP: Logged Jason Miller Expert Film Handler Posts: 241 From: Little Rock, AR, Registered: Mar 2004 posted 03-31-2006 08:18 PM                    Ok. That IS a P2 card. but it looks as if there is no power going to it. it was being used mainly as a converter from RCA to "balanced" line using the on-board isolation transformers. the automation parts of it arent working becasue it has no power. there should have been a power plug that came with it. 12 VDC I believe and I will have to see what the current rating is. that power plug, if switched on and off with motor power using a 120V relay, will cause the automation to change like I described before. since I am guessing you dont have the plug (whoever isnatlled this took a shortcut I guess), we have to try and work around it. we wont be able to switch to non-sync at the end of the show unless we found a way to switch it back to STEREO after proj2 was selected. if we can get the P2 card powered.. we can do that. the select switch you have on the front is correct. if you take a wire on the back and momentarily touch ground to STEREO during a movie, does the DA20 light up the orange "analog" led? and if data is available, does it switch to digital? I also just went back and saw the wire that goes from XO (changeover) to STEREO. if you select anything after the changeover closes, but before the motor stops, it is wired to select STEREO with proj2. holding a format select to ground is bad on some processors.. I dont know if this is true for USL. maybe Clint Koch would know that. if it is okay to do that, then we can actually hook up a wire from automation NONSYNC to processor NONSYNC. and when changeover closes non-sync should be selected. see what happens with that momentary wire from ground to STEREO during film run. EDIT: you said in a previous post there wasnt power going to that P2 card. sorry.. I should have picked up on that.  |  IP: Logged Jason Miller Expert Film Handler Posts: 241 From: Little Rock, AR, Registered: Mar 2004 posted 04-03-2006 01:47 AM                    Aaron... did any of that wiring work?  |  IP: Logged

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