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Author Topic: What should I be looking for in a 16mm projector? Gordon McLeod Film God Posts: 9532 From: Toronto Ontario Canada Registered: Jun 99 posted 04-22-2006 11:37 AM                     The prevost/zies favorite 16b is a very robust machine and produces a rock steady image the optical sound is the weak link but that too was workable The hortson is also a robust machine  |  IP: Logged Mark Gulbrandsen Resident Trollmaster Posts: 16657 From: Music City Registered: Jun 99 posted 04-22-2006 12:08 PM                     Gord, The Prevost IS a very robust and heavy machine but as far as it running varying kinds of 16mm film it is a disaster as are the big Eikis with geneva pull down. Both U of U and BYU have the big Eikis which replaced the Prevosts. We are about to pull one of those out in favor of Kinotons dual gauge series. BYU has a huge 16mm film collection and some 35mm of tens of thousands of 16mm films all kept in an underground temp controlled vault. For me the Hortsons were the better of the two able to run just about anything fed through it. Just not a good machine for a university situation because of parts and obsolescence. Ditto for the fine Eastman 16mm stuff. Mark  |  IP: Logged Steve Guttag We forgot the crackers Gromit!!! Posts: 12814 From: Annapolis, MD Registered: Dec 1999 posted 04-22-2006 01:50 PM                     Oh in terms of new machines...the Kinoton FP38E series pretty much spanks ALL past entries in the 16mm market in both picture AND sound...it is so far out in front of the rest that they simply don't compare  |  IP: Logged Gordon McLeod Film God Posts: 9532 From: Toronto Ontario Canada Registered: Jun 99 posted 04-22-2006 04:46 PM                     The issue with the hortson is usually picture jump the prevost with water cooling can produce a massive steady image that I have yet to see met but it doesn't like damaged film the bauer 16mm was a good machine  |  IP: Logged Mark Gulbrandsen Resident Trollmaster Posts: 16657 From: Music City Registered: Jun 99 posted 04-22-2006 07:51 PM                     I agree Steve, Thats what we've qouted them. Mark  |  IP: Logged Steve Guttag We forgot the crackers Gromit!!! Posts: 12814 From: Annapolis, MD Registered: Dec 1999 posted 04-22-2006 08:54 PM                     Want to give them a real treat...use an ISCO Vario-Kiptaron 20-60mm. It is truely a remarkable lens. I just did an experiement with one on the ability to shift it in a PC-Cine application...it worked quite well running at effectively 28mm. Comparing in an A/B situation to a Schneider Super-Cinelux 28mm...the Vario-Kiptaron was about twice as good on resolution as well as contrast. These are subjective measurements since the 16mm target film was not good enough to show how good the ISCO was.  |  IP: Logged Philip Borgnes Film Handler Posts: 18 From: Seattle, WA, USA Registered: Apr 2004 posted 07-20-2006 09:24 AM                        quote: Lindsay Morris When you go to EZM and EZG lamped machines the light output from a new EZM lamp is something like 4 times that of the ELC at almost 4000 lumens. The EZG because it has a smaller spot goes even higher at about 4200 lumens. Run times of EZG/EZM lamps is normally around 50 hours IF you cool them down carefully after each session and do not over strike them.. 50 hours is a long time in terms of film run time. However the 50 hours does not even compare $$$ wise with the easy 1000 hours one can get from a 500 watt Xenon BUT the light from a EZG or EZM unit at 300 watts is BETTER in side by side comparison to a 500 watt brand new Xenon. I do outdoor screens now on a 9x12 and 12x16 screen with a B&H 1568B with the EZG Gemini-300 lamp. I also just purchased an Eiki Xenon EX3500S1 which is being sent to me. I thought the B&H output was in the neighboorhood of 1800 lumnens and the Eiki I just picked up is about 2200 lumens. I'm surprised at your numbers above for the 1568 since that quite a bit brighter than I would have expected. My experience is that the 1568 isn't nearly as bright on screen as a 3000 lumnen DLP projector I use so I don't understand the 4200 lumens you are getting. Can you help me understand? Thanks.  |  IP: Logged David Kilderry Master Film Handler Posts: 355 From: Melbourne Australia Registered: Sep 1999 posted 07-21-2006 10:03 AM                        Philip, We once had a booking in one of our brand new theatres for a 16mm short to support a 35mm feature. The 16mm Bauer floor model with 1600 watt xenon was not available for installation in time for the first week. We hired a Bell and Howell with Gemini lamp for the short. The results were very good. When we finally got the Bauer installed, with new xenon it was only equal and not better than the B and H Gemini portable. The picture was steady and the sound improved with the Bauer, but the light was no better. We did not use the same lenses for the comparison, so certainly this was a variable, but bang for your buck the Gemini lamp was excellent. Someone needs to defend the later model Bell and Howells......I have used many models in their range along with Graflex, Victor, Elmo, Eiki, Hokushin, Cinevox, Phillips, Fumeo, RCA Hollywood and Kodak Pageant. None were bad projectors (except the sound on the Cinevox Premiere that had a chrome skid in place of a rotary stabiliser!) At home and in previous commercial engagements I have used a 1680 charcoal B&H slot loader. You get the best of both; no problems with poor leaders and the ability to unthread if required. Certainly they are more difficult to clean, but if you are thorough they offer excellent value with good light, image and sound. For years I preferred my old B&H 642 manual thread, but I began to use my 1680 more frequently and over 15 years now it has not skipped a beat. For several years this particular 1680 projector ran commercial screenings in a small auditorium sometimes for several weeks straight. I've certainly burnt out some lamps and exciters, but it is still my favourite. David  |  IP: Logged Christian Appelt Jedi Master Film Handler Posts: 505 From: Frankfurt, Germany Registered: Dec 2001 posted 07-21-2006 10:43 AM                     Many older portable 16mm machines suffer from weak plastic gears. After 20+ years, especially Eiki parts have a tendency to break or just fall apart. For an art museum installation using an Eiki Xenon projector, the service tech had to cannibalize not less than five other Eikis to keep the machine running over half a year - even the original spare parts he had were desintegrating fastly. The same with the last series of cheapo Bell&Howell machines that actually were Eikis with a B&H label. For non-xenon 16mm projection, the Bauer P8 T400 is a good solution too, if you can get one and have someone to service it. Bright, cool light from a HTI 400W/24V metal halide lamp rated at 750 hrs., runs fairly silent and is extremely gentle on film.  |  IP: Logged Monte L Fullmer Film God Posts: 8367 From: Nampa, Idaho, USA Registered: Nov 2004 posted 08-04-2006 02:30 AM                     Question - where can one find parts for these units - like shuttle assemblies, belts-both flat rubber cloth and the spring takeup belts, gears (since some units did use fibre or formica gears..et.al.), for I need shuttle assembly for a B&H 399 with the pulldown teeth that have badly grooved out causing the picture to jump irratic. -thx Monte  |  IP: Logged Cameron Glendinning Jedi Master Film Handler Posts: 845 From: West Ryde, Sydney, NSW Australia Registered: Dec 2005 posted 08-04-2006 07:51 PM                     Bauer, Eiki, Hokushin, from experience are good portables, Quality lenses are the biggest factor for quality. Prime lenses are not flexible but can be much sharper than a zoom.  |  IP: Logged

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