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Author Topic: Surround speakers -- why still visible? Sam D. Chavez Film God Posts: 2153 From: Martinez, CA USA Registered: Aug 2003 posted 04-21-2006 07:25 PM                       An AMC manager once told me "I like my movies with lots of surrounds" missing the point that the films don't belong to the theatre or to him. As to SDDS, it was a deal between Sony Pictures and AMC. It demeans the issue to claim bribery was involved, even in jest. The truth is even stranger. AMC wanted to be different and they wanted to validate a new vendor they could control (not Dolby). [ 04-22-2006, 12:34 AM: Message edited by: Sam D. Chavez ]  |  IP: Logged Eric Robinson Jedi Master Film Handler Posts: 538 From: Santa Rosa, CA Registered: Jan 2005 posted 04-22-2006 12:26 AM                     It may be conceivable that an acoustic design employing ceiling mounted spekaers reflecting off of a specificaly designed wall surface might yeild good or perhaps better results? I'm not an acoustic engineer so forgive my suggestion if it is assinine. I agree with others though that todays modern theatres can not afford the extra foot of wall thickness to envelope the surround speaker. I also agree that patrons like to see and hear the speakers the way they want to hear them. They would probably prefer hearing the movie in stereo by eliminating L, C, and R. Sorry, I'm being a little harsh. Its a shame though, because I know I really like the idea of hidden speakers and an environment of realism.  |  IP: Logged Frank Angel Film God Posts: 5305 From: Brooklyn NY USA Registered: Dec 1999 posted 04-22-2006 01:24 AM                        Sam, you are right....I spoke to a regional manager of a chain that shall go nameless, at an SMPTE meeting many years ago. He said that they had just installed a few Century JJs and he was lamenting the fact that when he played a movie in the 35mm houses with Dolby Stereo, he heard LOTS of sound coming from the surrounds. In the 70mm houses playing the same movie, he heard only occasional surround and very unimpressive at that. He was all "bah humbug" saying 70mm should be BETTER than 35mm. I said one explanation was that, even if both the 70mm and 35mm sound systems were set up perfectly, the 70mm surround track was a discrete channel and so ONLY the sound that was intended by the director was heard. The Dolby matrix was not descrete and therefore a lot of naturally occuring out-of-phase audio information, especially in the music tracks, can easly be diverted to the surround channel -- that was just the nature of the matrix beast. He didn't want to hear any of that crap as he put it. He said, all he knew was the company spent a hellofa lot of money to put in 70mm and the 35mm house had surround spewing out of them all the time and it sounded (to him) much better. I said but that was not what the director mixed but a limitation of the system. He said, to hell with the director; if he's gonna make a 70mm release, he damn better well put more sound on the surround track so it sounds better than the 35mm version. I am sure EVERY tech guy has been ask at one time or another, "Can't you turn up the surround speakers some more?." We do LUV that surround sound!  |  IP: Logged Michael Schaffer "Where is the Boardwalk Hotel?" Posts: 4143 From: Boston, MA Registered: Apr 2002 posted 04-22-2006 01:43 AM                        I couldn't care less if the surround speakers are visible or not. As long as they are out of reach. When the movie is playing, I want the room to be as dark as possible anyway because I don't want to see anything except for the movie. Or what's next? Invisible screen? quote: Sam D. Chavez As to SDDS, it was a deal between Sony Pictures and AMC. It demeans the issue to claim bribery was involved, even in jest. The truth is even stranger. AMC wanted to be different and they wanted to validate a new vendor they could control (not Dolby). Right, good idea. Looks like AMC really thought that through. After all, Sony is just a small local company and therefore easy to control by a company like AMC. For instance, they wouldn't dare to drop the format because an international giant like AMC could easily swallow them up or push them out of their other markets.  |  IP: Logged Sam D. Chavez Film God Posts: 2153 From: Martinez, CA USA Registered: Aug 2003 posted 04-22-2006 10:03 AM                       The point was Sony was new to our business. BTW, has anyone noticed Sony has not done too well in a number of markets the last few years? How about MP3? They invented this market and let it get away  |  IP: Logged Bobby Henderson "Ask me about Trajan." Posts: 10973 From: Lawton, OK, USA Registered: Apr 2001 posted 04-22-2006 11:26 AM                     Pretty simple. Sony thought too high and mighty of itself and its brand name. They took markets for granted. The real sin is they thought they could water down product quality and not work hard on developing new products and that people would buy "Sony" anyway. My first DVD player was a Sony model. $400 piece of garbage I ditched a few years ago. I replaced it with a Pioneer and that model still runs fine today. I'll probably buy a Pioneer when it comes time to jump on the HD-DVD or Blu-Ray thing. I think Sony is starting to learn market dynamics these days operate much faster and differently. But they have a lot of catch up work to do with the likes of Apple (as well as Creative Labs and others selling MP3 players). On the cinema products end, I don't see Sony remaining in the picture. SDDS is one of the three lossy compressed digital sound formats tied to 35mm film prints. SDDS has no entry in large format film. They have no entry in digital cinema either. Dolby is trying to carve out a spot in the D-Cinema market for themselves and DTS is trying to remain relevant for that market too.  |  IP: Logged Michael Schaffer "Where is the Boardwalk Hotel?" Posts: 4143 From: Boston, MA Registered: Apr 2002 posted 04-22-2006 11:09 PM                        quote: Sam D. Chavez The point was Sony was new to our business. I know, I was just being sarcastic about what looks like a lot of naiveté on AMC's part. Sony is such a huge company, and the cinema sound market is relatively small, I don't think they ever cared for the format, it was just one of many things they did. I never understood anyway why they got into it. The cinema sound market is much smaller than many other areas, and with that two other already established competitors, did they ever think they could make a lot of money there?  |  IP: Logged Bobby Henderson "Ask me about Trajan." Posts: 10973 From: Lawton, OK, USA Registered: Apr 2001 posted 04-22-2006 11:57 PM                     quote: Bobby Henderson SDDS has no entry in large format film. I should correct myself. Sony is trying to get their SXRD 4K digital cinema projector format off the ground. However, they're not just shooting themselves in the foot in the manner of trying to promote it. They're blasting off their entire foot, ankle and lower part of the leg with a double barrel 10 gauge shotgun. My understanding is they're using 2K originated material and blowing it up to 4K to demonstrate the virtue of the 4K standard. Whoever came up with that idea needs to at least be written up if not fired outright. What's the matter with these guys? They run a damned movie studio! If they want to show off 4K on their Sony-branded 4K equipment they can easily order filmmakers working under the Columbia/Tri-Star/MGM name plates to get some shit done at native 4K levels. Duh!!!!! Sony seriously needs get some people who understand digital imagery involved in driving their D-Cinema business model. Not turds who stupidly think anything "digital" equals perfect. If they're gonna promote 4K they need to wake the **** up and promote it using native 4K originated material. Gawd!!!!!  |  IP: Logged Michael Schaffer "Where is the Boardwalk Hotel?" Posts: 4143 From: Boston, MA Registered: Apr 2002 posted 04-24-2006 02:33 AM                        quote: Bobby Henderson Whoever came up with that idea needs to at least be written up if not fired outright. Bobby, the kind of 6-figure-salary executives who work for the kind of company Sony is *never* get written up for stupid stuff, they get promoted to an even better paying job they know even less about where they can do even more damage. That is just the way large corporations work. That should also answer all your other questions.  |  IP: Logged John Eickhof Jedi Master Film Handler Posts: 588 From: Wendell, ID USA Registered: Jan 2000 posted 04-26-2006 10:43 AM                        I have had occaision to utilize a dense 70v line array of smaller speakers located within the walls of the auditorium. The Colfax Theatre is one example. We have had several 'shoot-outs' between the various digital sound systems there and the surround quality was always commented on as superb. Not a speaker to be seen! I used Frasier CAT 15 speakers and three channels of amplification (LS,CS, RS) the system is performing great! And no speaker problems, gain problems or vandalism!!  |  IP: Logged David Stambaugh Film God Posts: 4021 From: Eugene, Oregon Registered: Jan 2002 posted 04-26-2006 11:54 AM                        Ian Price reported that Sony shows a native 4K clip from "Baraka" as part of their demo.  |  IP: Logged

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