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» Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE   » Operations   » Film Handlers' Forum   » Radio Sound at Drive-Ins --- When? (Page 2)

 
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Author Topic: Radio Sound at Drive-Ins --- When?
David Kilderry
Master Film Handler

Posts: 355
From: Melbourne Australia
Registered: Sep 1999


 - posted 04-24-2006 09:56 PM      Profile for David Kilderry   Author's Homepage   Email David Kilderry   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Here in my part of the world all drive-ins were 100% speakers until 1978. At this time the Village Drive-in circuit upgraded to Cine-Fi AM. They removed most of the speakers, but found many had to be returned as many did not have radios and the old Blue Cine-Fi hire radios were soon wrecked or stolen. The opening films here in Melbourne with Cine-Fi was the Grease + Saturday Night Fever double.

The first drive-in to have FM stereo here was the Dromana drive-in, I was aware they had it in 1984. Interestingly the other major drive-in circuit stayed all speakers until the end. The last two closed in 1990 still with all speakers and no radio sound. The speaker maintenance at these 1200 plus car drive-ins was never ending!

Many drive-ins here in Melbourne were 70mm equipped, they often ran 70 and 35 mag/op. I am not sure if they ever just used centre channel, I would say they simply would have folded all the channels down going by the switch pannels.

Today here at the Lunar Triple Drive-in we are all FM stereo. The AM Cine-Fi and speakers are long gone. I too have never heard of Cine-Fi FM.

David

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Michael Coate
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1904
From: Los Angeles, California
Registered: Feb 2001


 - posted 04-26-2006 06:36 PM      Profile for Michael Coate   Email Michael Coate   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Thanks, everyone, for the replies. In reading the replies I realize that I need to apologize for not asking my question clearly. Not sure what I was thinking (apparently not at all!) but I think I may have complicated the question by mentioning specifically "FM" radio playback when my real question is in regard to radio sound in general, regardless if it was AM or FM.

I had thought that Cine-Fi was FM, but in checking some notes and ads I see that Cine-Fi, at least the Pacific drive-ins in Southern California in the late-'70s, was indeed AM.

Speaking of which, what exactly was/is Cine-Fi? Just a trade name? Or is there something uniquely different with Cine-Fi compared with other brands/types of radio drive-in sound?

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Jack Ondracek
Film God

Posts: 2348
From: Port Orchard, WA, USA
Registered: Oct 2002


 - posted 04-26-2006 09:19 PM      Profile for Jack Ondracek   Author's Homepage   Email Jack Ondracek   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
The Cine-Fi system is/was a package of rack-mounted components, which could be mixed and matched to fit your theatre and budget. If you had a working speaker system, and wanted to eliminate speaker maintenance and replacements, Cine-Fi was the way to go. It was like the LPB systems, except it was designed to work with your existing speaker wiring, instead of leaky coax. As most of Pacific's drive-ins were paved, I can see how a system like this would have been attractive to them.

The system was provided in both full-sized racks and half-sized open "relay" racks, usually on wheels.

The transmitters were 10 watt units, which were designed to feed into a "splitter" box. That box had screwdriver-adjustable pots that let you feed a portion of the transmitter's output to each of the theatre's existing rows of speaker boxes (the speaker wiring hooked up to the splitter). Some installs had a monitor of sorts, which would include an automotive AM radio, a 12v power supply and in some models, a small oscilloscope for adjusting modulation levels. A CB-type microphone allowed for paging, and there was a tape deck input for "non-sync". Larger installations could be purchased with emergency standby transmitters and switching panels to route input audio and ouput RF lines.

The system was literally self-contained. The sound-head solar cell connected right up to the transmitter, which had mic-level inputs for the projector and paging mic. Given the vintage and intended use, there was never any accommodation for noise reduction. After replacing the outside speakers with antenna clips, installation was more or less complete. At one point, all of Pacific's drive-ins in Washington State, and maybe even in California used this system. The sound was roughly comparable to what you'd get from a window speaker, which was a shame, because most AM radios back then could do much better.

There was a great article about this. I tripped over it while doing a search for something else. Can't find it now, but here's what I remember (blatant disclaimer for any inaccuracies):

In Japan, somebody had a building with an elevated parking lot. There was an activity of some kind there... can't remember if it was a drive-in, though... maybe. Anyhow, poles and speakers were out. Somebody there came up with the idea of sticking an incredibly low RF level into a wire with a clip. You clip the wire to your antenna to get the sound. In practice, some radios can pick up the signal without the clip, but a lot depends on evening skip interference.

Somehow, someone at Pacific Theatres got wind of the Japanese system and sponsored/imported/licensed its use in the US. Inventor Kiichi Sekiguchi (then of Cine-Fi International) received the 1978 Technical Achievement Award for the development of the CINE-FI Auto Radio Sound System for Drive-in Theatres (clickie).

By today's standards, Cine-Fi is pretty seriously outmoded. Of the two transmitters they made, one had a vernier analog tuning dial... really great when transmitting to today's PLL-locked radios (the transmitters drifted horribly with changes in ambient temperature). They didn't have any processing, either... not even basic limiting. You'd have to add a lot of outboard processing to make it sound very good. Some of the parts in there are pretty hard to come by, if you can find them at all.

As for FM in the '70s, there weren't many options, other than being lucky enough to have an "in" at a radio station with a good junk box. As for the 'do it yourselfers', did Broadcast Warehouse, Ramsey, Decade or Panaxis exist? Mr. Microphone, maybe [Smile] .

Shown below is a Cine-Fi installation, currently in use at the last "United Drive-Ins" location in Washington.

 -

From top to bottom are:
The monitor panel (note the car radio at the upper right).

Two of the "newer" transmitters (dip switch frequency set with frequency readout, audio level and RF meters).

The "input panel", where source equipment is connected and leveled.

Finally, two versions of output splitting panels, to which the former speaker lines are connected.

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John Pytlak
Film God

Posts: 9987
From: Rochester, NY 14650-1922
Registered: Jan 2000


 - posted 04-27-2006 09:00 AM      Profile for John Pytlak   Author's Homepage   Email John Pytlak   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
quote: Jack Ondracek
Of the two transmitters they made, one had a vernier analog tuning dial... really great when transmitting to today's PLL-locked radios (the transmitters drifted horribly with changes in ambient temperature). They didn't have any processing, either... not even basic limiting. You'd have to add a lot of outboard processing to make it sound very good. Some of the parts in there are pretty hard to come by, if you can find them at all.

My "home brew" AM transmitter was crystal controlled, so I needed a separate crystal for any frequency we chose to use. Trouble with AM is all the nightime interference from stations hundreds or thousands of miles away (like Radio Havana Cuba). Our system sounded pretty good when there was no interference, so many preferred it to the speakers on the lot.

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Phil Blake
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 558
From: esperance western australia
Registered: Nov 2003


 - posted 04-29-2006 12:40 AM      Profile for Phil Blake   Author's Homepage   Email Phil Blake   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
The system we had was not an actual real mccoy Cine Fi it was a WA locally made system based on Cine - fi I do remember it was definately FM

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Jack Ondracek
Film God

Posts: 2348
From: Port Orchard, WA, USA
Registered: Oct 2002


 - posted 04-29-2006 05:12 AM      Profile for Jack Ondracek   Author's Homepage   Email Jack Ondracek   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
quote: Phil Blake
The system we had was not an actual real mccoy Cine Fi it was a WA locally made system based on Cine - fi I do remember it was definately FM
Are you just talking about the general layout, Phil?

An FM system wouldn't have much use for old field speaker wiring, so most of the Cine-Fi concept wouldn't carry over.

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John McConnel
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 118
From: Okmulgee, OK USA
Registered: Nov 2003


 - posted 04-29-2006 09:08 PM      Profile for John McConnel   Author's Homepage   Email John McConnel   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
The Riverside Drive-in in Norman, OK, had radio sound in 1959, as well as field speakers. It was an AM system, built by J. Eldon Peek of Oklahoma Theatre Supply in Oklahoma City. The antenna was a wire stretched horizontally between posts behind the back ramp.

On a different subject, Mr. Peek devised a system for the Riverside that helped prevent speaker theft. If a speaker wire were cut, the change in impedance would cause an alarm bell to sound in both the projection room and the boxoffice. The lot attendant would close the exit gate. An indicator light identified the ramp where the speaker was cut, and whether it was on the left-hand side of the field or the right-hand side. The projectionist then pressed a button, and a meter identified which pole the speaker was on.

The projection room was built above the concession stand, and the projectionist would step outside and holler to the lot attendant the ramp and pole number, and shine a light in the area of the cut speaker. Nearly all speakers were recovered.

Norman, OK, is a college town, and every new crop of students cut speakers. But after a few of them got caught, word got around, and the speaker theft stopped.

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Jack Ondracek
Film God

Posts: 2348
From: Port Orchard, WA, USA
Registered: Oct 2002


 - posted 04-30-2006 01:10 AM      Profile for Jack Ondracek   Author's Homepage   Email Jack Ondracek   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I wonder if that relates to the test boards at the phone company central offices, where they track down breaks in their lines..?

Pretty cool, for someone to have it figured out that well back then.

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Phil Blake
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 558
From: esperance western australia
Registered: Nov 2003


 - posted 05-04-2006 01:41 AM      Profile for Phil Blake   Author's Homepage   Email Phil Blake   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Jack, all I can remeber is the guy quoting to us that this system was based on the popular Cine fi system , not having used an exact Cine fi I am not so sure as to what the simularities were. I rember it had a dual transmitter system and it was fm and it served our 450 car cinema really well.
I thought it was a real blessing , After nearly cutting my thumb off with a hacksaw while trying to open a speaker casing , this new system was putting an end to our horrid speaker fixing program !

I cant for the life of me recall the suppliers name , I am sure David Kilderry would be familiar with this unit even though it probably did not sell so well in the east.

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