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Author Topic: Speaker cable size recommended? Steve Guttag We forgot the crackers Gromit!!! Posts: 12814 From: Annapolis, MD Registered: Dec 1999 posted 05-20-2006 01:50 PM                     Richard, because there is a difference between advice or exchange of information and out-and-out free-loading. It is one thing when a person is trying to solve a problem and gets some advice...it is another thing to basically get free design work for their entire project. There are gray areas there to be sure. Just like when an educational system copies copyrighted work for the classroom...there are limits as to what is acceptable. In copyright law, there is the legal system to make the determination...here it is up to the individual to determine when enough is enough. Steve  |  IP: Logged Amanda Mundin Expert Film Handler Posts: 122 From: Belper, Derbyshire, UK Registered: Sep 2005 posted 05-20-2006 02:16 PM                     Thanks for the help guys Amanda  |  IP: Logged Phil Hill I love my cootie bug Posts: 7595 From: Hollywood, CA USA Registered: Mar 2000 posted 05-20-2006 03:38 PM                  I didn't mean to start a controversy... Those are just "MY" thoughts! I think Gordon and Steve said what I meant more elegantly than my BLUNT "Tell-it-like-it-is" post. But! I've never been known to mince words! Whether you agree or not with me, I could give a shit less! Your opinion is just as valid as mine, however: Like assholes... they all stink! After all, I'm NOT into PC! I just got tired of ALL her "Help me design my theatre for nothing" posts. Have a nice day and go see a movie! Yours in Christ, >>> Phil  |  IP: Logged Jack Rapper Film Handler Posts: 7 From: norfolk, va /usa Registered: Oct 2003 posted 05-20-2006 03:56 PM                        If you do not know the answer to a question that you are asking, you probably should not ask.  |  IP: Logged Richard May Phenomenal Film Handler Posts: 1057 From: Floral Park, NY USA Registered: Aug 2004 posted 05-20-2006 04:09 PM                     Now that makes no sense at all.  |  IP: Logged David Stambaugh Film God Posts: 4021 From: Eugene, Oregon Registered: Jan 2002 posted 05-20-2006 06:50 PM                        Maybe there needs to be a defined limit on how many questions a person can ask within a period of time. Or maybe Film Handler's Forum should be replaced with a page containing links to qualified theater engineers and technicians. "Have a technical question? Call one of these professionals (and get out your wallet)". I'm being facetious of course. I dunno, it just seems like the "You're trying to get something for free" argument could be applied to a lot of the people asking technical questions. If you're gonna slap someone around for doing that, then let's be fair about it and not just single out one person.  |  IP: Logged Randy Stankey Film God Posts: 6539 From: Erie, Pennsylvania Registered: Jun 99 posted 05-20-2006 09:29 PM                     I think it's more about the even exchange of information, rather than the total amount of information given/receiced. I like helping people and answering questions. It's just the way I'm wired. However, there is a balance. You can call it karma. You can call it social currency. It doesn't matter what you call it. It's the concept that's important. A person joins our community to give and receive information. In the beginning, they will take in more "currency" than they pay back. As time goes on, they wil settle in and begin to give out information... or even just tell jokes and socialize. Take Bob Maar, for instance. He's the Joke Meister of this forum. Comic relief is a form of social currency just the same as giving and receiving information is. How about Gordon and John? They give out WAY more information than they receive! But, if one of them asked for help on some subject, I don't think anybody would hesitate to pitch in what they could. That is THEIR social currency. Okay... Ms. Mundin's account is runing in the red right now. I imagine that, if she would join in and socialize for a while, people would feel less like they are being taken advantage of. I'm sure they would be more forthcoming with information and assistance when they are able to provide it. So... Why doesn't Amanda take some time to hang out in the Yak forum and tell us more about herself, her theater and what her plans for the place are? I'm sure that would help recharge her karma. As it stands, it seems like a lot of people feel like they are being beseiged by a wraith who comes out of the darkness, swoops up what she wants only to disappear into the night until the next time she returns.  |  IP: Logged David Stambaugh Film God Posts: 4021 From: Eugene, Oregon Registered: Jan 2002 posted 05-20-2006 09:37 PM                        Point taken.  |  IP: Logged Tim Reed Better Projection Pays Posts: 5246 From: Northampton, PA Registered: Sep 1999 posted 05-21-2006 02:04 AM                       Very well said, Randy, as usual. It's interesting you mentioned hanging out and socializing... before I chimed in on this, I searched the forums and didn't find one post from Amanda in "Yak". However, judging from the ones I found on FHF, Phil was making a valid point. quote: Phil Hill After all, I'm NOT into PC! That's why you're loved so!  |  IP: Logged Brian Guckian Jedi Master Film Handler Posts: 594 From: Dublin, Ireland Registered: Apr 2003 posted 05-21-2006 09:01 AM                     Looking at this another way, it can be seen that there are great rewards from working with the projection equipment contractor from the earliest stages of a project. For one thing, the design gets done right, you can cover all the bases, and you can achieve a really great result. In fact, a well-designed cinema is the key to long-term viability! There are some really great companies in the UK that are totally committed to quality and have a long track record in the business. Now it could be that the money isn't there to hire someone...but if so that has to be addressed immediately. It's all about forming a team, looking at the potential business and then going out and raising the money. Who said that's easy? Of course not, it's part of the challenge. And - if it's not viable then don't do it! It's far more honourable to back away in that case than to proceed on the proverbial shoestring with all the appalling compromises and stress that entails. Not being judgmental here BTW; this is meant in the best way. [Er, I'm guilty of not having posted in the Yak Forum myself. But that's OK! Everyone knows I'm a humourless, anti-social type that hangs out in the kitchen at parties... ]  |  IP: Logged John Hawkinson Film God Posts: 2273 From: Cambridge, MA, USA Registered: Feb 2002 posted 05-21-2006 11:08 AM                     This is a complex issue. Personally, I don't think that Amanda has asked too many questions, and I hope that she continues to ask and is not rebuffed by the direction of this thread. Particularly good are questions about topics that can be answered in a sufficiently general way so as to be useful to everyone. (And, of course, presumably she has made use of the search feature in order to find older answers to similar questions, avoid duplication, etc.) Sometimes it seems to me that the response people can get on F-T is not as welcoming as it should be, and we should really try to change that. It's not a good thing if people are afraid to post for fear of getting "taken down a few pegs." It seems to me that if, for instance , a topic is of sufficient general interest for Box Office Magazine to run an article about it (what kind of speaker wire to use, and how to size it), then it is entirely reasonable for F-T to entertain such questions. Also, we should remember that not everyone has the resources to hire a professional for some kinds of tasks, and even if you do have the resources, it is nice to have a good understanding of the issues yourself. Everyone knows that dealers are (or can be!) human and thus are subject to error, and a wise customer gets a second opinion or better yet, a personal understanding. While I agree with Randy that it is nice to participate socially on the site, I don't think you can reasonably require that. If you are new to the field or the site, you may not feel comfortable participating in the Yak forum. Especially if you're not a particularly extroverted person. Also, it could feel immensely awkward if you had to "balance" your technical questions with jokes or comments about random pictures. It can even feel disingenuous to contribute to Yak just for the purpose of "paying for" your FHF inquiries. Sure, those things can be entertaining and can build a social dynamic, but they are certainly not required for us to answer questions. (And of course, even better is if technical answers can be contributed about film questions; but certainly not everyone is in that position.) The situation with experienced F-T participants like Steve and Gordon is complicated, too. We all appreciate their contributions, and they are extremely helpful. And even if major contributors might feel that a person has asked too many questions, they may still feel it is their responsibility to provide answers, or to correct misinformation that might be distributed by well-meaning but less-experienced individuals, for the good of the site. So there is a responsibility on them. But of course, contributors like that, especially when they are also dealers, derive an additional benefit from such participation. Customers are much more likely to purchase from dealers who are well-knowledgeable and experienced, and I expect that several dealers on F-T have built good reputatations simply through F-T (not to say they are advertising here!), and those reputations help their business. --jhawk [ok, that was too long]  |  IP: Logged Clive Carmock Film Handler Posts: 24 From: Morden, Surrey, UK Registered: Dec 2004 posted 05-21-2006 12:22 PM                     I am not directly in the industry myself, and as such I have found the threads that have been generated by Amanda's questions interesting. Everyone has to start somewhere, and I guess in the early days people ask more than they contribute perhaps. Over time you'd hope that as they gain experience then they can share that with others. The way I'd handled a situation where I felt someone was 'freeloading would be to pass on that thread and allow those that wanted to participate do so. Just my opinion. Regards Clive  |  IP: Logged Gordon McLeod Film God Posts: 9532 From: Toronto Ontario Canada Registered: Jun 99 posted 05-21-2006 03:23 PM                     Broading ones knowledge is always good and I think one will notice that awnsers have always been made available to anyone that asks but remember that design work is also often a value added feature of a package sale of equipment so if one is doing a proffesional project then it should be dealt with in that fashion  |  IP: Logged Tom Sauter Expert Film Handler Posts: 163 From: Buffalo, NY, USA Registered: Sep 2000 posted 05-21-2006 04:41 PM                        You can always choose not to respond if you feel that your professional advice is being taken advantage of, but in the spirit of film-tech one should answer if you like! One always has to take into account the circumstances that a particular individual may be encountering, perhaps they are trying desperately to save a deteriorating but wonderful single screen on a shoestring budget, or perhaps they're just cheap. I have had some "customers" who, over time, I have learned were just using my pricing to turn around and bargain with their preferred vendor, or fill their required 3-quote bid process. In that case, "thanks for the opportunity, but no thanks " has cleared that up in a hurry. If you feel that something may not be worth your time, you can politely move on.  |  IP: Logged Alex Rolfe Film Handler Posts: 37 From: Cambridge, MA, USA Registered: Mar 2003 posted 05-21-2006 07:39 PM                        When we were trying to answer this question (speaker cable size, not how much help can one ask for), I found the JBL Cinema design manual at http://www.jblpro.com/pub/cinema/cinedsgn.pdf very helpful. They recommend no more than 5% power loss in the wiring.  |  IP: Logged

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