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Author Topic: Film Guard questions - media pads and application Amanda Mundin Expert Film Handler Posts: 122 From: Belper, Derbyshire, UK Registered: Sep 2005 posted 12-30-2006 04:44 PM                     Can the kelmar film cleaner be used with film running backwards? i.e. when rewinding Also can it be run at a higher speed than 24 fps, when running film from reel to reel without running through the projector?  |  IP: Logged Brad Miller Administrator Posts: 17775 From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall) Registered: May 99 posted 12-31-2006 02:09 AM                     Yes and yes, but I would recommend you try and limit it to 3X normal projection speed for the best cleaning job.  |  IP: Logged Monte L Fullmer Film God Posts: 8367 From: Nampa, Idaho, USA Registered: Nov 2004 posted 12-31-2006 02:18 AM                     Wasn't there some Kelmar workbenches have that hole right above the variac assembly on the edge of the tabletop that a bracket could be fitted on the table to mount these Kelmar media cleaners on for cleaning while inspections, or assemblies of prints on the big reels?  |  IP: Logged Carl Martin Phenomenal Film Handler Posts: 1424 From: Oakland, CA, USA Registered: Feb 2002 posted 12-31-2006 02:31 AM                        i certainly have used a kelmar cleaner between rewinds. it was a used b&w print that was shedding something crazy. i continually sprayed naphtha onto the pads as it whizzed by. (since we're not allowed to use film-guard ( ).)  |  IP: Logged Monte L Fullmer Film God Posts: 8367 From: Nampa, Idaho, USA Registered: Nov 2004 posted 12-31-2006 03:25 AM                     quote: Carl Martin I continually sprayed naphtha onto the pads as it whizzed by. (since we're not allowed to use film-guard) ...NOW, that is the worst no-brainer that I have ever heard of: using a highly flammable substance up in the booth that emits a vapor that is somewhat toxic as well...in as well as using it on prints that would dry the crap out of prints since it adsorbs all sorts of oil! (Ever hear of cigarette lighter fluid-same stuff - all naptha..just a substance that doesn't belong in any booth) "Ka-BOOM!!" ... "Wooo! ..love the new mullet that you suddenly sporting there!" Dont get me wrong now. Namptha is great for getting grease, gum and other sticky stuff off of surfaces, in as well as getting road tar off of the fenders of vehicles....but just not for cleaning film in a closed working environment.... Ever see how your fingers get all white and flaky looking from all of the skin oils being purged from the skin by using namptha? Then, think on how the film feels since it's going the same way. (..hope the owner of this complex has good liability insurance..time to find another complex to work at...) (geez....!!) - Monte  |  IP: Logged Brad Miller Administrator Posts: 17775 From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall) Registered: May 99 posted 12-31-2006 03:51 AM                     Here is a 70mm cleaner modified to run 16mm or 35mm film mounted on a Kelmar rewind bench in a rigged fashion. Neumade actually now makes an official film cleaner bracket for their Ultra II table too.  |  IP: Logged Monte L Fullmer Film God Posts: 8367 From: Nampa, Idaho, USA Registered: Nov 2004 posted 12-31-2006 04:00 AM                     How did you make the flanges of the large drive drum come together so that 16mm can be driven across the edge rubber tires? Is there a spacer that can be switched out to bring the flanges closer together? thx-Monte  |  IP: Logged Charles Greenlee Jedi Master Film Handler Posts: 801 From: Savannah, Ga, U.S. Registered: Jun 2006 posted 12-31-2006 05:11 AM                        Not allowed to use FG? I can see them not wanting to buy it because they're cheap bastards, but outright forbidding its use? Crazy. Strange that they'd let you use charcoal lighter fluid. Naptha truely is wonderful stuff, and I find more uses for it everyday, but I'm also cautious with it. I don't think I'd even consider using it on film. Sounds like your company may have it out for film tech. I mean, at least use C-lube then, though I'm sure Brad will hate me for reccommending it. Well, recommending it only if FG is specifically prohibited, and not all cleaner/lubes, because its gotta be better that naptha. If you really want to use flammible/toxic solvents on your film, we still have a full can of Renovex sitting on our shelf collecting dust. At least it's designed for film use. I don't plan on using it. Serously, start sweet talking them into allowing some kind of cleaner/lube for your film.  |  IP: Logged Gordon McLeod Film God Posts: 9532 From: Toronto Ontario Canada Registered: Jun 99 posted 12-31-2006 09:55 AM                     Actually hydro naptha is a commonly used film cleaner in many film labs http://www.sanlabsystems.com/  |  IP: Logged Charles Greenlee Jedi Master Film Handler Posts: 801 From: Savannah, Ga, U.S. Registered: Jun 2006 posted 12-31-2006 12:07 PM                        Probably a different formulation, I'm sure. Like the labs using PTR cleaners to clean the film. Their PTRs are huge, and are much different from the ones we get, so I thinking the Naptha is the same, but could be wrong. I'd still shy away from it if I could find something better or safer.  |  IP: Logged Gordon McLeod Film God Posts: 9532 From: Toronto Ontario Canada Registered: Jun 99 posted 12-31-2006 01:38 PM                     Actually the labs use the same ptrs that theatres use  |  IP: Logged Brad Miller Administrator Posts: 17775 From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall) Registered: May 99 posted 12-31-2006 02:52 PM                     There is only one company that bans the use of FG, and it is purely a retarded issue. Anyway, to modify a cleaner you just remove the spacer from in between the two flanges, mount the spacer on the outside of one of the flanges using extra long bolts and then insert an appropriate amount of washers between the flanges (using those same two extra long bolts). Look closely at that picture, you will see the 70mm spacer on the operator side of the two flanges, instead of in between the two flanges.  |  IP: Logged Charles Greenlee Jedi Master Film Handler Posts: 801 From: Savannah, Ga, U.S. Registered: Jun 2006 posted 12-31-2006 03:46 PM                        quote: Gordon McLeod Actually the labs use the same ptrs that theatres use I thoguht they had a more industrial type. Maybe the same theory and compund, but I think theirs uses larger rollers. Heck if their rollers are 6x as big, they may actually be able to clean a whole movie before the compund becomes saturated.  |  IP: Logged John Hawkinson Film God Posts: 2273 From: Cambridge, MA, USA Registered: Feb 2002 posted 01-01-2007 11:18 AM                     As others have said, regular VM&P naptha seems to be the recommended film-cleaning solvent of choice, replacing 1-1-1-tricholoroethane (e.g. Renovex). It has a different application than FilmGuard, because it evaporates quickly. It is also better than FilmGuard at removing gummed-up tape residue, cheap splicing tape, nasty foil cues, and similar spot-cleaning tasks. Ideally, every booth should have both. FilmGuard for extensive cleaning, and a solvent like naptha or Renovex for spot-cleaning. Yes, you can use FilmGuard for spot-cleaning, but it doesn't work as well. And you can use naptha or Renovex for entire-print-cleaning, but you'll have to use a lot, and they evaporate quickly, so don't have FilmGuard's benefits. Kodak's Solvent page is an excellent resource. Do check it out. As for the flammability, well, it has a higher flash point and higher boiling point than isopropyl alcohol...observe reasonable precautions. --jhawk  |  IP: Logged Henry Titchen Film Handler Posts: 31 From: Singleton, NSW, Australia Registered: May 2005 posted 01-01-2007 07:19 PM                     Hi, Is Filmguard covered by a patent? If so does anyone know the number? It sounds like a great product. Thanks from, Henry.  |  IP: Logged

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