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Author Topic: Zeiss Ikon Favorit 16 - info required Steve Guttag We forgot the crackers Gromit!!! Posts: 12814 From: Annapolis, MD Registered: Dec 1999 posted 02-14-2007 04:57 AM                     I'll tell you Mark...there is no way you could get an Eastman to beat one of my FP38E installs. Neither sound nor picture. As for brightness...I've run the FP38Es up to 5KW when needed. I've gotten the "it looks like 35mm" comments out of them.  |  IP: Logged Mark Gulbrandsen Resident Trollmaster Posts: 16657 From: Music City Registered: Jun 99 posted 02-14-2007 08:28 AM                     quote: Steve Guttag I've gotten the "it looks like 35mm" comments out of them. Funny, but thats exactly what the film department heads said about the Eastman and why they bought it... and they didn't like the clumsiness of threading the Kinoton and I very definately agree on that. The Eastman is super easy to thread and its ruby lined gate will never wear out like the plastic parts in the Kinoton. Again... I don't do the rebuilds or mods to the Eastmans, this is done by a person in the Midwest. Until you've seen these particuluar Eastmans I wouldn't knock them. A hint... it uses a Kinoton lamphouse but not the Kinoton mirror... it uses a custom mirror. You wouldn't need 5kw with this mirror to achieve what you're getting. We were able to achieve an even 28fl on a 36 foot wide screen(in scope!) with this install and a 2kw lamp. We left it set at about 20 and it looks spectaculuar. Remember I've seen both and so did the folks at the U. They choose the better route, I had been pushing the FP38E. Mark  |  IP: Logged Michael Schaffer "Where is the Boardwalk Hotel?" Posts: 4143 From: Boston, MA Registered: Apr 2002 posted 02-14-2007 06:25 PM                        quote: Mark Gulbrandsen The Eastman is super easy to thread and its ruby lined gate will never wear out like the plastic parts in the Kinoton. I think I will never understand why people don't understand that simple concept. When you have film racing at high speed through the gate (in addition to abruptly stopping and starting at very high speeds), there is a lot of friction. Something will wear down. That's just a fact of physics. It's better to wear the gate and runner strips down than the film and then replace them once a year or so (for what? $20-30?) than to wear the film material down. As far as the differences between the FP38E and those Eastman machines are concerned, I have no clue. I have never seen one of the latter. At the Berlin Film Festival, we always used FP38E and Bauer Selecton II.  |  IP: Logged Gordon McLeod Film God Posts: 9532 From: Toronto Ontario Canada Registered: Jun 99 posted 02-14-2007 06:47 PM                     As wonderfull a peice of engineering art it is the Eastman 25 is an overtly complicted and dated machine  |  IP: Logged Mark Gulbrandsen Resident Trollmaster Posts: 16657 From: Music City Registered: Jun 99 posted 02-14-2007 06:59 PM                     quote: Gordon McLeod As wonderfull a peice of engineering art it is the Eastman 25 is an overtly complicted and dated machine Gord, I'm trying to imagine what makes it complicated? The fact that it has two drive motors? The fact that the gate is lined with rubies? The fact that all the film path parts... sprockets and pad rollers are made from Stainless Steel? I'm still trying to figure out where the complicated aspect lies in the Eastman... when in reality its actually a very simple mechanism. Like the DP-70 these machines were built to last forever and run properly for ever with very little maintainance. BTW Michael, The rubies actually produce less friction than do the plastic parts on the FP series. Mark  |  IP: Logged Gordon McLeod Film God Posts: 9532 From: Toronto Ontario Canada Registered: Jun 99 posted 02-14-2007 10:34 PM                     My experience with eastmans either on telecine chains to theatres has never been as good as the FP16 also I have found it far tougher on shrunken and damaged film  |  IP: Logged Michael Schaffer "Where is the Boardwalk Hotel?" Posts: 4143 From: Boston, MA Registered: Apr 2002 posted 02-15-2007 02:34 AM                        What exactly is meant by "rubies" here? Ruby colored velvet gate bands?  |  IP: Logged Mark Gulbrandsen Resident Trollmaster Posts: 16657 From: Music City Registered: Jun 99 posted 02-15-2007 08:17 AM                     quote: Gordon McLeod My experience with eastmans either on telecine chains to theatres has never been as good as the FP16 also I have found it far tougher on shrunken and damaged film Gord, Thats a great explanation of why they are so complicated.... What are we all in for next? Michael, If you make it to this neck of the woods sometime I'll be happy to show you the Eastman. You are probably the only one of the few here with an open enough mind to be able to appreciate what it is capable of and how well built it is. Edit: Steve is correct in his statement below about 6000' capacity. Many were bult with just 2300' capacity... intended for C/O booth I suppose but there were many later machines that came factory equipped for 6000'. The model 40 Eastman was the last model built was the culmination of all the knowledge gained building the Model 25... unfortunately there are only a handful of Model 40's built before Kodak discontinued production. Mark  |  IP: Logged Steve Guttag We forgot the crackers Gromit!!! Posts: 12814 From: Annapolis, MD Registered: Dec 1999 posted 02-15-2007 08:22 AM                     While I'm a big fan of the FP38E...I'm not so gung ho on the FP16 or FP18. The Eastman 25 was indeed a very well built machine and I have no particular qualms about it (except the lack of easy 6000' reel support...not that many have not come up with their own mods). The light path sound is a bit odd. As for the FP38E's light efficency...I think it is lacking strictly due to it being part of a combo 35/16 machine and it is the secondary format (it is a 35mm projector that handles 16mm). The skate/runners on the FP38 are fine though much more costly than Mike thinks...16mm is often 2-3 times as costly as 35mm nowadays. Kinoton has always used ceramic discs for the lateral guidance...which is very good for wear but it does make them fragile when they are stored out of the machine (when running 35mm).  |  IP: Logged Richard Fowler Film God Posts: 2392 From: Ft. Lauderdale, FL, USA Registered: Jun 2001 posted 02-15-2007 10:24 AM                     Micheal, the ruby parts are industrial parts machined out of ruby mineral to create a very hard surface which resisted scoring and tend not to trap dirt. Some movie camera had this as a feature....also bearing material in watches.  |  IP: Logged Mark Gulbrandsen Resident Trollmaster Posts: 16657 From: Music City Registered: Jun 99 posted 02-15-2007 11:27 AM                     quote: Richard Fowler Some movie camera had this as a feature....also bearing material in watches. Yea, The Auricon Newsreel cameras had ruby balls in the gate. Those things never wore out. All high grade watches have jewels... not all are ruby but the higher grade watches and clocks are... Reifler Astronomical Clocks are all ruby jeweled and in fact the escapement of the Reifler had razor edges that suspended the pendulum on a set of Ruby slabs. This German Clock was the most accurate time keeping instrument of its day and has yet to be beat by any other electro-mechanical type clock. The chastized Eastman looking more like a tiny 35mm machine than anything else. Note its shorter curved gate... shorter path and less friction! Also a much smaller radius than the Kinoton machines have.  |  IP: Logged Steve Guttag We forgot the crackers Gromit!!! Posts: 12814 From: Annapolis, MD Registered: Dec 1999 posted 02-15-2007 12:08 PM                     Jesus H Tap Dancin' Christ....of course the image looked good on that Eastman...you had God's gift to lenses....the ISCO Vario Kiptaron 20-60 and then for scope used a Blue-Star. One could do no better indeed! Steve  |  IP: Logged Michael Schaffer "Where is the Boardwalk Hotel?" Posts: 4143 From: Boston, MA Registered: Apr 2002 posted 02-15-2007 07:59 PM                        I would like to see pictures of the ruby runner strips. I don't think I have ever seen any of those.  |  IP: Logged Richard Fowler Film God Posts: 2392 From: Ft. Lauderdale, FL, USA Registered: Jun 2001 posted 02-16-2007 09:12 AM                     Dorothy needs them to get back from Oz....couldn't resist  |  IP: Logged Mark Gulbrandsen Resident Trollmaster Posts: 16657 From: Music City Registered: Jun 99 posted 02-16-2007 11:26 AM                     Here they are....... those magic shoes.....  |  IP: Logged

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