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Topic: Dolby debuts new trailer on YouTube

Blaine Young
Master Film Handler

Posts: 477
From: Kirkland, WA, USA
Registered: Sep 2006

posted 03-30-2007 06:46 PM

384k/bs is also the datarate for Dolby Digital on LaserDisc (if anyone remembers what they were...)

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Frank Dubrois
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 896
From: Cleveland, OH
Registered: Mar 2005

posted 03-30-2007 07:01 PM

So I'm curious as to why DTS doesnt sound WAY WAY better (even on DVD) at 768k or 1536k?? I have quite a few DVD's that were DTS ONLY soundtracks and they maxed out the bitrate at 1536. They sound good...but in my opinion, not THAT much better. Anyone know whats up with that?

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Mark Strube
Master Film Handler

Posts: 322
From: Milwaukee, WI, United States
Registered: Feb 2007

posted 03-30-2007 07:54 PM

Well, DTS is a completely different audio compression algorithm, with different weaknesses and strengths. It probably requires close to that 768 to sound respectable. I haven't tried it myself, but I'd assume DTS at 384 or 448 might not sound so hot.

quote: Bobby Henderson
It can run at higher rates on HD-DVD and Blu-Ray, sometimes at the 640kb/s maximum rate.

Believe it or not, there's some HD local stations that encode their DD audio at that bitrate. (Specifically from what I've seen, some ABC locals.) I don't know if that's the rate at which it's coming to them from the network, but either way, I won't complain. They'd probably be fine using 448 and giving the video a smidgen more bitrate; although if the locals are forced to re-encode from a different digital format I can understand going with the highest bitrate possible. Incidentally, that's also the bitrate the Xbox 360 uses to output all of its digital audio. (Which actually causes problems with HD-DVD's that use Dolby Digital Plus... their encoder is set wrong, and applies dynamic compression no matter what. They've supposedly been working on a bug fix since fall, but that annoying issue made me get a regular stand-alone player.)

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John Koutsoumis
Master Film Handler

Posts: 261
From: Melbourne, Victoria, Australia
Registered: Aug 2003

posted 03-30-2007 08:14 PM

quote: Claude S. Ayakawa
I have always enjoyed all of Dolby's trailers but none of Honolulu's theatres play them anymore. Where has showmanship gone?

I don't consider screening Dolby trailers part of showmanship. Particularly if the image has is not up to par.

I got tired of them. At least THX had enjoyable ones with the Tex character.

Also there were many times when a Dolby trailer finished that someone would utter "Hey I have the same thing at home" or "My system has more bass". Dumb comments but still..

To quote Martin Hart of Widescreen Museum
"And fer gawd's sake, turn down the volume on those horrible trailers and digital sound promos."

I agree.

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Mark Strube
Master Film Handler

Posts: 322
From: Milwaukee, WI, United States
Registered: Feb 2007

posted 03-30-2007 08:16 PM

quote: John Koutsoumis
Also there were many times when a Dolby trailer finished that someone would utter "Hey I have the same thing at home"

And in higher bitrate! [Big Grin]

::ducks::

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Bobby Henderson
"Ask me about Trajan."

Posts: 10973
From: Lawton, OK, USA
Registered: Apr 2001

posted 03-30-2007 09:17 PM

quote:
So I'm curious as to why DTS doesn't sound WAY WAY better (even on DVD) at 768k or 1536k?? I have quite a few DVD's that were DTS ONLY soundtracks and they maxed out the bit rate at 1536. They sound good...but in my opinion, not THAT much better. Anyone know whats up with that?

A lot of it has to do with the audio material itself. Significant portions of movie audio tracks are made up using material that isn't exactly great in terms of audio fidelity. Old, canned sound effects, audio used from location and more can bring overall quality of a mix down a peg or two.

DTS, particularly in its higher bit rate form, usually reveals greater differences than Dolby Digital on music material.

quote: John Koutsoumis
Also there were many times when a Dolby trailer finished that someone would utter "Hey I have the same thing at home"

quote:
And in higher bitrate! [Big Grin] [Razz] [thumbsup]

That's at least one thing where "digital cinema" has the upper hand -provided if bit rate is really a valuable marketing commodity.

The average Blu-Ray 1080p disc has a audio/video stream that typically has a max of 30 million bits per second. A JPEG2000 movie can run up to 250 million bits per second.

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David Stambaugh
Film God

Posts: 4021
From: Eugene, Oregon
Registered: Jan 2002

posted 03-30-2007 09:35 PM

Eh wot? According to blu-ray.com the basic data rate for Blu-Ray is 36mbps, and BD-ROM movies (video/audio combined) run at least 54mbps.

quote:
According to the Blu-ray Disc specification, 1x speed is defined as 36Mbps. However, as BD-ROM movies will require a 54Mbps data transfer rate the minimum speed we're expecting to see is 2x (72Mbps). Blu-ray also has the potential for much higher speeds, as a result of the larger numerical aperture (NA) adopted by Blu-ray Disc. The large NA value effectively means that Blu-ray will require less recording power and lower disc rotation speed than DVD and HD-DVD to achieve the same data transfer rate. While the media itself limited the recording speed in the past, the only limiting factor for Blu-ray is the capacity of the hardware. If we assume a maximum disc rotation speed of 10,000 RPM, then 12x at the outer diameter should be possible (about 400Mbps). This is why the Blu-ray Disc Association (BDA) already has plans to raise the speed to 8x (288Mbps) or more in the future.

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Mark Strube
Master Film Handler

Posts: 322
From: Milwaukee, WI, United States
Registered: Feb 2007

posted 03-30-2007 09:59 PM

I think he's talking about the average bitrate of BD releases so far. The players are capable of reading a 48mbps A/V stream from the disc, but they rarely utilize that. The disc authors are using multi-pass encoding, so I'm sure there may be some cases where certain scenes get close to that, however it's hardly sustained. Also, keep in mind, the 48mbps number is for combined audio & video... with multiple HD and uncompressed audio formats on one disc, your average video bitrate isn't getting anywhere near 48mbps.

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Frank Dubrois
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 896
From: Cleveland, OH
Registered: Mar 2005

posted 03-31-2007 01:33 AM

....and this is the reason I am waiting before jumping into the HD deal. Remember when non-progressive DVD players from Toshiba sold for $499? You couldnt get $3 for it now. As soon as the players get to 3rd generation or so, I'll jump, but I want them to maximize the potential of the format...or at least get close before I shell out $$. $1000 for a 1st gen blu-ray player? i think not.

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Mark Strube
Master Film Handler

Posts: 322
From: Milwaukee, WI, United States
Registered: Feb 2007

posted 03-31-2007 09:28 AM

I got a brand new 2nd gen HD-DVD player for $389 which isn't bad at all (the price has since gone even lower), but now I'm hedging my bets on HD-DVD eventually winning... so there's some risk. But I'm definitely enjoying it quite a bit.

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Bastiaan Fleerkate
Film Handler

Posts: 85
From: Linschoten, Utrecht, The Netherlands
Registered: Jun 2006

posted 03-31-2007 10:33 AM

quote: Mark Strube
but now I'm hedging my bets on HD-DVD eventually winning... so there's some risk.

I am waiting for the hybrid HD-DVD/BLU-RAY drives... I think BLU-RAY sounds a [bs]

load better... just like X-ray, Stingray, Ray Charles, etc. it's just cooler than HD-DVD [Razz]

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Manny Knowles
"What are these things and WHY are they BLUE???"

Posts: 4247
From: Bloomington, IN, USA
Registered: Feb 2002

posted 03-31-2007 03:23 PM

Hmmm...has Dolby abandoned its Sound Mark? I didn't hear it in this trailer.

I don't like that so many of these snipes emphasize the loudness factor that digital sound offers.

On the other hand, DTS Sonic Landscape was a little too minimalist for my taste.

I liked Dolby's Egypt trailer and Aurora a lot. Dolby's Rain was okay...but strange.

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Bastiaan Fleerkate
Film Handler

Posts: 85
From: Linschoten, Utrecht, The Netherlands
Registered: Jun 2006

posted 03-31-2007 08:01 PM

I enjoyed the Perpectives trailers to... The old City and the new City Redux trailer are much better though...

The train trailer is also good. You must see the long version. The short version is [sleep]

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Scott Jentsch
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1061
From: New Berlin, WI, USA
Registered: Apr 2003

posted 04-02-2007 03:58 PM

quote: John Koutsoumis
I don't consider screening Dolby trailers part of showmanship. Particularly if the image has is not up to par.

Absolutely, I think showing the digital sound trailers is all about showmanship. Theaters in the Milwaukee area rarely show them anymore, probably because they don't want to expend the great effort it takes to put them onto the film. [Roll Eyes]

If nothing else, showing the digital sound trailer after the lights have dimmed and the inane advertising has gone away is a good segue into the movie trailers and main feature. Granted, frequent movie-goers may get tired of seeing the same trailers week after week, but that's a good reason to have multiple sound trailers to choose from, right?

Of the THX Trailers (which are rarely shown as well, which doesn't make *any* sense at all), I like Cimmarron the best. The impact that the initial light spray has on people is pretty cool to watch! [Smile]

Cavalcade (liquid metal) is nice because of the discrete raindrops. The Simpsons one is a fun classic that would be great to pull out every once in a while when people get tired of the others.

Having a great presentation of picture and sound is a well-made cake. Adding things like curtain openings and digital sound/THX trailers is icing on that cake. When a theater doesn't play the trailers, I figure they're having trouble getting the cake right, so there's no need for them to apply the icing...

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Mark Strube
Master Film Handler

Posts: 322
From: Milwaukee, WI, United States
Registered: Feb 2007

posted 04-02-2007 04:08 PM

quote: Scott Jentsch
The Simpsons one is a fun classic that would be great to pull out every once in a while when people get tired of the others.

It'd be real cool if some theaters made an effort to play this before The Simpsons Movie. It'd be even cooler if there was a special Dolby and/or DTS trailer made specifically for it this summer. [Big Grin]

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