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Author Topic: "selling" theatre owners on upgrades Mark Gulbrandsen Resident Trollmaster Posts: 16657 From: Music City Registered: Jun 99 posted 06-15-2007 01:09 PM                     quote: Louis Bornwasser To be sure, all of us have "charity cases" who are not making loads of money. These are the places that get the hand-me-downs for free. Louis Not necessarily true but there are customers that want to make themselves out as charity cases!! Take our ex-Idaho customer for instance. We quoted him a used sound system upgrade... used USL proc.,matching speakers and amps to what he already had there so he could take his existing C/S system on one screen to full stereo. Now you can't buy some of the USL cards any longer and we offered him a good tade in on his C/S USL and we'd just keep it for the parts. Instead he opted to go to an unscruplious dealer in Denver and just buy the stuff... mismatched stuff at that... without calling us back and saying hey can you do a little better? We probably could have had he called us back first. At any rate he still wanted US to come install the pile of junk he bought from the unscrouplous dealer(you all know who this is) and we said we would but that since this dealer's stuff is never in the condition it is represented we warned him that it would undoubtdly cost him more. Because he didn't even bother to call us back first we quoted him a price $20.00 per hour higher than we normally charge for service work and he about started crying at the other end of the phone. He called another local sub-contractor to come install it all and it was exactly as we presumed it would be.... the sub contractor had some horror stories for us about the gear when he got back in town. The mis-represented equipment ended up costing him way more than had he just bought our first quote. Stupid people! Mark  |  IP: Logged William T. Parr Jedi Master Film Handler Posts: 823 From: Cedar Park, TX Registered: Nov 2000 posted 06-15-2007 01:25 PM                     I know how you feel Scott. I had teh same problem with the previous owner at the Howard theatre in Taylor. Thank God he sold it to someone that was willing to make an invetsmet in buying a new screen for his downstairs theater, bought a DTS unit from Mark at CALCO and C/E red led anaog readers as well as two Dolby units one a CP 65/300 and a CP55 with the split surround card and a SRA5 adapter with 280 cards. We are now working on repalceing the 23 yr old amps that were handed down and lenses that are from the early 70's. The new owner also put in rockers with cup holders. All in all with making neccessary repairs to the building and doing teh upgrades they dropped about $18,000 into it.  |  IP: Logged Bob Koch Expert Film Handler Posts: 183 From: williams ca Registered: Nov 2001 posted 06-15-2007 07:03 PM                     Great thread ,Scott. As usual Sam and Louis have pushed my buttons. Sam, as usual getting right to the point with his 'pulling the correct levers of fear and greed to reach them. Louis reference to Motiograph reminded me of a story that occured to me fifty or so years ago dealing with Model K,s and how to get rid of them in order to improve the picture on the screen. I worked for RCA then and they had come up with an idiotic projection parts contract for theatres in which we already serviced the sound. They had in their bovine like minds that they would supply the theatres with maybe a couple of pad rollers six books of lens tissue and collect their hefty monthly charge never dreaming that pad rollers hardly wear out but cracked reflectors,worn intermittent sprockets and intermittent overhauls and high intensity arc lamp positive contact failures were the norm. Anyway, I digress. The theatre was the old Esquire in Sacramento which had this type of contract,opened in 1940 with Brenkert Enarc arc lamps with Motiograph model K,s with their 415 lb pedestals.Oldsters will remember that the design of the K with its barrel shutter and associated universal trunnion and the opening of the whole rear door which contained the film trap. It prevented getting the arc lamp mirror at it`s working distance of 34",had to be 36' or more resulting in a huge loss of light and with the barrel shutter giving its soft vignetting effect[close to travel ghost] gave an under illuminated "soft" picture. The operator and I decided we should send one "K" out for overhaul and got a Brenkert BX 60 for a loaner and just to ice the cake I got a 31" mirror to stick in the Enarc.Boy;you should have seen the changeovers.Even the patrons noticed but to no avail. Management wouldnt buy the change and my upgrade went in the toilet.They so appreciated my efforts they kept bitching to get the "K" back so the light would be equal[and less] again. I was prolonging their agony saying we were waiting for parts for the Motiograph but then the dealer wanted his loaner back; so ended my attempt to upgrade anyone.In my day, most of my customers were circuits with their main office with the required numbskulls anywhere from 100 to 1000 miles away and the on site people had a petty cash fund sometimes reaching almost$100 to use for local emergencies and repairs. Different time and different circumstances. From reading this forum it appears to me that some of you get to deal with principals. People who have spending authority now seem to actually go in the auditoriums and see what kind of presentation is being offered to the public. Not in my day.  |  IP: Logged Michael Moore Expert Film Handler Posts: 188 From: Dover, DE / USA Registered: Jun 2006 posted 06-15-2007 08:44 PM                        I found the direct step wise approach of "hey we need to upgrade" and showing them the pros and cons of upgrading was sufficient. I did this in steps and over about three years! One thing to my advantage the board of directors glazed over when I started talking about the current equipment and what we would get out of newer better equipment. I quickly discovered that they had no clue of what I was talking about and decided to just leave it up to me. They backed the money! Then my manager said she did not want me to use certain vendors and preferred for us to use others because of the problems we have with the equipment we have now. When the Schwartz Center was renovated they did not consult anyone about equipment, they used all the original supers that were installed in 1960 and did not what them replaced. They got a company/vendor to install and sell us what was called a "turn key operation" What we had was far from turn key, It was more like crank start and wizard of OZ behind the curtain kind of stuff. If any of you see what I have to do before I can show a film you would quickly quit after the second show! Trust me! When I arrived I quickly did what I could at the time to upgrade. I went form a 500 watt bulb to a 1000 watt first. Then I slowly over hauled each platter, I took the old falling apart particle board MUT and transformed it into a functional MUT all with very little money investment. I purchased blowers, instead of renting then! I got a Century from Louis; I got a bigger power supply to get me brighter on the screen and A new 2000 W bulb, new splicer, new Flat lese. I plan to get a new scope lens soon and a cinema processor is in the works. Little bits at a time worked for me. I'm now $10,000.00 closer to a better booth. Mike  |  IP: Logged Mike Blakesley Film God Posts: 12767 From: Forsyth, Montana Registered: Jun 99 posted 06-15-2007 09:28 PM                        The previous owners of my theatre were the type that never wanted to upgrade anything. So when my brother in law and I bought it, we knew it needed work -- plus we are both gadget freaks, and I'm a sound nut. So we started upgrading. Then, people started saying how much they appreciated what we were doing, and saying "Thank you!" for providing a better theatre. Plus our crowds increased. So that was like fuel on the fire, and now I like to do upgrades (as Mark G. will testify), because I know the people appreciate it and will reward us with their attendance. I think the secret might be: Make the first upgrade something very noticeable to the audience, so they comment a lot about it. (Of course it helps if the owner is actually in the building to hear the positive comments.)  |  IP: Logged Monte L Fullmer Film God Posts: 8367 From: Nampa, Idaho, USA Registered: Nov 2004 posted 06-15-2007 10:09 PM                     Yes, going one step at a time and reaching a goal where you can cay "I did it!" and knowing that the public really notices the difference from what it was to what improvements have been taken, is well worth the congrats to the two Mikes above.  |  IP: Logged Ron Curran Jedi Master Film Handler Posts: 504 From: Springwood NSW Australia Registered: Feb 2006 posted 06-16-2007 02:06 AM                        I regard our cinema as a work in progress. Our key staff have a wish list and we get a thrill when the budget allows us to tick off an item. It may be just a small thing like an extra power point in the foyer or beefier power for the subwoofers. The danger is in accepting what you have as the ultimate. For an owner to hear that some aspect of the theatre nearby is superior should be enough to fire up his/her ambition to improve. The major frustration is having things that are almost impossible to change. For example, our ceiling is too low so we cant increase the screen size without a complete re-build. And due to a lost battle, we now have an aisle right across the centre of the auditorium where the true cinema lovers used to want to sit.  |  IP: Logged Mark Gulbrandsen Resident Trollmaster Posts: 16657 From: Music City Registered: Jun 99 posted 06-16-2007 09:03 AM                     quote: Mike Blakesley So that was like fuel on the fire, and now I like to do upgrades (as Mark G. will testify), because I know the people appreciate it and will reward us with their attendance. Which is one reasons why you have one of the three best theaters in all of Montana! And thats a really large state! Mark  |  IP: Logged Sean McKinnon Phenomenal Film Handler Posts: 1712 From: Peabody Massachusetts Registered: Sep 2000 posted 06-16-2007 09:23 PM                        Mark, Can you email me regarding this "unscrupulous dealer"in Colorado. Ive started doing business with a dealer out there and want to make sure this isnt the same one your tslking about. Ive been dealing with Tankersly Enterprises and so far think theyve been great to me! <email address removed> [ 06-16-2007, 10:07 PM: Message edited by: Brad Miller ]  |  IP: Logged Christopher Crouch Expert Film Handler Posts: 128 From: Holywood, ca, usa Registered: May 2006 posted 06-17-2007 04:49 AM                  In addition to presentation quality, there is also an issue with old equipment requiring time and focus that could be better spent elsewhere. More problems, more maintenence, more tinkering, more babysitting, etc. lead to more man hours being spent in booth. Additionally, this often takes management and staff off the floor; that manager and/or staff member, struggling with an old piece of projection equipment, could have been on the floor generating cashflow had the theatre owner invested in upgrading his/her equipment. Over time, this mispent time and focus can add up and take a sizeable chunk out of that heavily sited bottom line.  |  IP: Logged Joel N. Weber II Expert Film Handler Posts: 115 From: Somerville, MA, USA Registered: Dec 2005 posted 06-17-2007 11:52 AM                     Age and quality aren't necessarily correlated, and I'm not sure that every 50 year old projector head requires more tinkering than every five year old projector head. On the other hand, older equipment does typically need to be fixed on occasion, and fixing it right the first time can certainly save time in the long run.  |  IP: Logged Mark Gulbrandsen Resident Trollmaster Posts: 16657 From: Music City Registered: Jun 99 posted 06-18-2007 08:01 AM                     For comparison we have a couple dozen booths that are still running Supers.... Yet we rarely sell any Super parts at all!! I visit a pair of immaculate E-7's in Big Timber, MT. once a year and basically say hi to them... they never need any work. We sell mostly X-L parts and then Century... this is what I see from my point of view servicing. None of our customers have any want to replace theses older machines either. Mark Mark  |  IP: Logged Scott Norwood Film God Posts: 8146 From: Boston, MA. USA (1774.21 miles northeast of Dallas) Registered: Jun 99 posted 06-18-2007 09:09 AM                        A more interesting statistic would be parts cost per machine in service. Of course the average dealer will be selling more X-L parts than Super parts because there are more X-Ls in service. It would be more interesting to see that, on average, a well-maintained X-L requires $x worth of parts per year, while a well-maintained E7 requires $y worth of parts per year.  |  IP: Logged Mike Blakesley Film God Posts: 12767 From: Forsyth, Montana Registered: Jun 99 posted 06-18-2007 09:22 AM                        Our 27-year-old Simplex doesn't run as many shows as a city machine would (max 14 to 16 shows per week, probably averages about 10 per week) but it's never needed any major parts that I can think of. Had to have the intermittent repaired once but that was caused by a film clog, nothing to do with the machine itself.  |  IP: Logged Joshua Waaland Jedi Master Film Handler Posts: 800 From: Cleveland, Ohio Registered: Dec 1999 posted 06-18-2007 09:40 AM                     *WARNING* Rant Welcome to my life. I deal with this everyday. I sell automation for welding. I go into customer's plants (at their request even) and do demonstrations of our equipment. 99.9% of my leads come from a customer finding us on the internet or asking their local welding supplier for automation. They come to me looking for a way to speed up their welding processes (without spending the major capital investment that is required for robots) and make things easier for their welders. In the end very few of them actually buy anything. I even go as far as asking the customer to send their parts in to me to video tape the weld and send them back the parts and the edited video. This saves me wasting my time and expenses of going there if they aren't serious about buying anything. This is a major time investment in itself with the video part of it. If they decide they still want a demo from there I will go do it at their premises. They still end up not buying anything most of the time. In the future I have decided to make the customer commit to a conditional purchase order before I come to them. A kind of "If it works, you must buy it" agreement. I just had a customer do this to me. I went all the way to Wisconsin and the jerk off stiffed me even after I did the video and everything. He couldn't wait to get me there to see the machine work. When I called for a follow up he told me they didn't want it. I asked why and he told me he wasn't included in the meeting and he didn't know why. WHAT?!?!?! The least you could do is give me a straight answer since I wasted thousands of dollars in shipping, airfare, car rental, gas, food and lodging. I also had to leave my home and family for three days. The worst part is that 99% of the time our equipment drastically improves their arc on time, weld quality and employee morale but they still don't purchase. Our prices are a small fraction of what a robot or higher end automation would cost. I don't get it. Most of them turn out to be tire kickers. Frankly, I am also surprised at how many people have no conscious about wasting your time and money. If you can find a way to pry a customer's death grip from their wallets please let me know. Especially when you prove to them the time and cost savings they will benefit from and the short time in which the machine pays for itself. Not to mention the improved employee morale since they don't have to have their face right in the welding fumes anymore and put their bodies in uncomfortable positions. I would think that this would also translate into less insurance premiums since the welders are doing less physical labor and breathing less toxic fumes.  |  IP: Logged

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