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Author Topic: Strong Millenium heat shield/shutter contact Mark Gulbrandsen Resident Trollmaster Posts: 16657 From: Music City Registered: Jun 99 posted 10-27-2007 11:31 AM                     quote: Steve Guttag I'm dying to meaure the new Kinoton Premier shutters...they look to be substantially more efficient than 50%! Their improvements come from a faster intermittent allowing a shorter closed time. The blades are just over 80-degrees. Oh come on... thats not anyting new... Premiere my ass. Nothing more than a high speed pull down, perhaps based on the Kodak starwheel patent combined with a narrower shutter. High speed stuff has been around since the 50's. Although you already know you will more than likely along with alot more light on screen see much improved image definition. Donno why you see flicker on P35's... I certainly don't and we have many P-35's on small and huge screens running in excess of 16fl. Even the customers agree on ones that I converted... that the flicker is gone. Mark  |  IP: Logged Monte L Fullmer Film God Posts: 8367 From: Nampa, Idaho, USA Registered: Nov 2004 posted 10-27-2007 01:33 PM                     quote: Steve Guttag Likewise with the various digitals...I still find it unsettling that I like the sound of SDDS the best overall. AND,what's interesting, is that I fully agree with you on this one. When I used to work in a megaplex, we had 3 houses with SDDS, and I would always use this format over DTS and SR-D which were also included in the soundrack. Granted, the compression rate with SDDS was higher than DTS, yet lower that SR-D, but somehow SDDS just had the dynamics and sound quality better than the other two, which I don't know what it was. Yes Steve, I also agree with you on how one can tell which machine is used when visiting other cinemas due to that "telling" since each has their own personality. I want to add a small comment in here that I've been noticing at my theatre since this topic of flicker is on our minds: I've got the PR-1050's, ran Century SA's, plus ran P35s with the single wing shutter and what's a bit interesting is that with all three, this flicker issue is basically there since we are watching the picture on the screen in the save viewing angle as the projected image (kind of looking behind the projected image), yet when we go downstairs, obviously, we're at a different viewing angle and don't notice that flicker as much. Also, maybe some people are more keen in seeing those 48Hz pulses of light than others, where in theroy, our brains absorb that frequency of light pulses into one - like with me with CRT computer monitors: The default 60Hz refresh rate drives me insane due to the flicker where I make sure that I've changed the setting to the higher 75Hz refresh rate. -Monte [ 10-27-2007, 03:27 PM: Message edited by: Monte L Fullmer ]  |  IP: Logged Louis Bornwasser Film God Posts: 4441 From: prospect ky usa Registered: Mar 2005 posted 10-27-2007 03:18 PM                        deleted by Louis--off topic  |  IP: Logged Mark Gulbrandsen Resident Trollmaster Posts: 16657 From: Music City Registered: Jun 99 posted 10-27-2007 06:52 PM                     Monte, I think what you're trying to say is that different people perceive the flicker differently and that is very true indeed. I still haven't noticed any flicker to write home about out of either P-35GP with the single shutter, a Simplex X-L, or the DP-70... @ 16fl relative I perceive them to all be about the same. quote: Monte L Fullmer The default 60Hz refresh rate drives me insane due to the flicker where I make sure that I've changed the setting to the higher 75Hz refresh rate. Its funny that you bring this up because the 60 hz refresh rate actually drove a neighbor friend of mine to have attacks and she would convulse and then pass out. It was only when one morning that I was talking to her over the phone and she mentioned she was doing some work on the computer and she stopped cold in the middle of the cnversation... and I heard the phone hit the floor. I hung up and called the ambulance right away and they got there just in time. Changing the refresh rate on her monitor to 75hz stopped the convulsions. Mark  |  IP: Logged Monte L Fullmer Film God Posts: 8367 From: Nampa, Idaho, USA Registered: Nov 2004 posted 10-27-2007 07:08 PM                     Thx Mark..now I can see where this is all coming from since the key in this whole side topic discussion is the 16fl light output, not so much of shutter structure and operation - where I came up with that end credit flickering if the bulb is too close - you back off the bulb, light output decreases and the flicker becomes less noticable.. Thus, the magic forumla in this whole disussion is to get as much light on the screen and less noticable flicker to go along with it.. (guess why IPC designed the Hi-Speed Intermittent assembly for the Simplex XL to allow some of that formula to be solved.) Maybe why this is another reason for the immense desire for digital projection ... nice 20plus Fl, and no flicker. -Monte  |  IP: Logged Mark Gulbrandsen Resident Trollmaster Posts: 16657 From: Music City Registered: Jun 99 posted 10-27-2007 07:29 PM                     No, Digital projection spec is actually 14fl. If you go over the prescribed 14fl you wash out the blacks and lower the overall image contrast dramatically. The average human eye is very suceptable to seeing the 48hz flicker from a film projector when the light level is between about 18 to 20 fl. Mark  |  IP: Logged Steve Guttag We forgot the crackers Gromit!!! Posts: 12814 From: Annapolis, MD Registered: Dec 1999 posted 10-27-2007 08:24 PM                     The Kinoton premier machines are electronic intermittent...so not likely to be based on anybody's starwheel. Like you said though...I'm looking forward to measuring the improved light AND the improved image resolution. I just took deliverly of 6 machines...4 are 35/16s and 2 are 35/70s. Two of the 35/16s will also be virtual 3-wing machines up to 25fps so those should look really fantastic. Perhaps I am more senstive to the flicker than others...just like single chip DLP...they are downright annoying to watch. As for film projectors...I just don't like the Christie look...sorry...it has improved immensely over time in both picture and sound but still leaves a lot to be desired in my book. Steve  |  IP: Logged

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