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Author Topic: Dropping out of Digital Alarm Markus Lemm Expert Film Handler Posts: 113 From: Ottawa, Ontario, Canada Registered: Nov 2005 posted 10-27-2007 02:55 PM                        The problem is actually with DTS dropping out. The condition of discs is the issue. When we do get discs they are usually bent because someone put them at the bottom of the can instead of between the reels. A lot of discs have scratches on them especially the burned sets that we get.  |  IP: Logged Louis Bornwasser Film God Posts: 4441 From: prospect ky usa Registered: Mar 2005 posted 10-27-2007 03:07 PM                        Wow! Just another reason for sound-on-film! Nevermind. I agree with Brad, SR, when done perfectly is NEARLY equal to the best digital audio, so I feel you should work on that aspect and not try for digital unless it too is perfect. Louis  |  IP: Logged Monte L Fullmer Film God Posts: 8367 From: Nampa, Idaho, USA Registered: Nov 2004 posted 10-27-2007 03:16 PM                     quote: Markus Lemm A lot of discs have scratches on them especially the burned sets that we get. ..now, that's a bit interesting: "Burnt ones?" Sounds like, with your sound system the way it is, (difference in Digital and optical, DTS dropping out at times, et.al.) needs a visit from a tech for sure.  |  IP: Logged Brad Miller Administrator Posts: 17775 From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall) Registered: May 99 posted 10-27-2007 04:17 PM                     Scott, even Kinotons can scrape the SRD track off. It is usually seen on PK60s that are mounted to other lamphouses without enough heat protection. As far as Simplexes, it depends on the vintage. I agree with you on the Cinemeccannica though.  |  IP: Logged Scott Norwood Film God Posts: 8146 From: Boston, MA. USA (1774.21 miles northeast of Dallas) Registered: Jun 99 posted 10-27-2007 05:13 PM                        Interesting. The only PK60s that I know of in this town have Kinoton lamphouses and don't damage film or SRD tracks. FP30s, of course, have Kinoton lamphouses built in and don't have this problem either. [ 10-27-2007, 06:30 PM: Message edited by: Scott Norwood ]  |  IP: Logged Steve Guttag We forgot the crackers Gromit!!! Posts: 12814 From: Annapolis, MD Registered: Dec 1999 posted 10-27-2007 08:11 PM                     Wait a minute...PK60s with Kinoton lamphouses? Really? Why bother with that set up when you can skip the middle man and just get a FP30? Had loose pedestals lying around? My own experience with PK60s has been such that no SRD damage whatsoever...lamphouses have been Strong and even Christie (CK20s...not known for being cool). Steve  |  IP: Logged Scott Norwood Film God Posts: 8146 From: Boston, MA. USA (1774.21 miles northeast of Dallas) Registered: Jun 99 posted 10-27-2007 08:45 PM                        See the pics for Boston Museum of Fine Arts. They put in the lamphouses first and upgraded the heads (from E7s) later. Ceiling height is an issue there and I don't know if FP30s would have fit anyway.  |  IP: Logged Greg Routenburg Expert Film Handler Posts: 178 From: Toronto, ON, Canada Registered: May 2003 posted 10-28-2007 06:28 PM                     Could you not build an S-R Latch with a couple of NAND gates, connect the SR Automation Pin on the DTS unit to the Set side of the latch, a momentary push button to the Reset side for an alarm silence button? You'd still have to use a transistor on the output of the latch to drive any real loads like a buzzer or something. By using the connection on the CP55 for the remote box, wouldn't it trigger the alarm even when the processor was running in SR for a movie that had no DTS track?  |  IP: Logged Brad Miller Administrator Posts: 17775 From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall) Registered: May 99 posted 10-28-2007 08:28 PM                     Ummm, wrong Steve-o. Check out this picture. That is not one of my installs, but is precisely what happens if you dare put a non-Kinoton lamphouse with more than a 2K bulb behind a PK60 without heat filters and water cooling. The delrin melts and cracks away. The result is total destruction of the SRD and SDDS tracks. For extra fun, the aperture gets melted to the delrin as well, so when the operator switches lenses, the arm gets bent. Meanwhile the picture starts shaking uncontrollably as the intermittent coupler turns to mush.  |  IP: Logged Steve Guttag We forgot the crackers Gromit!!! Posts: 12814 From: Annapolis, MD Registered: Dec 1999 posted 10-28-2007 08:53 PM                     Brad....my findings are my findings...I believe I only have two PK60s with more than 2KW and no water cooling...they are Strong Super Lume-X lamphouses though. That said, I don't dispute your findings...since I don't have extensive experience with greater than 2KW on a PK60 using various brands of lamphouses/consoles. I have a friend that has a mess of PK60s on Big Sky consoles and has not reported any problems like the ones you dipict, however. I'll ask and see how many are above 2KW and what the water cooling status is.  |  IP: Logged Lyle Romer Phenomenal Film Handler Posts: 1400 From: Davie, FL, USA Registered: May 2002 posted 10-28-2007 09:33 PM                     If you do build the alarm you need to do it with some type of state machine not just simply connect to something to drive the buffer. You need the alarm to go off if SR gets pulsed after AUX has been pulsed and then silence if AUX gets pulsed again. I'd have to whip out my engineering books to actually design it. If I get bored in the next couple of days I'll sketch it out. You'll need a couple of logic gates and a transistor to drive the alarm on the output. If you want to keep it simple I guess you can just have the alarm go off whenever SR is active but then you'll get the alarm annoying you during trailers that aren't in digital. To the question of alarming on a certain error rate, I'd think the only way to do that would be to use a microprocessor to read the serial data (pulling the error rate out) and then writing a program. Or you could hack the error correction card and use the lines that drive the LED display to drive some logic that alarms whenver the lines that are "hot" are the ones that make up 6 or 7. If it was 1993 again, I'd suggest to Dolby that they include this as a programmable output of the DA-10/20 that could be used to drive alarms. Now I think the only alarm they would care about is one to tell you that the 3D filter isn't spinning right.  |  IP: Logged Louis Bornwasser Film God Posts: 4441 From: prospect ky usa Registered: Mar 2005 posted 10-29-2007 10:48 AM                        Lyle; the trouble is with dts not playing. I, too thought he had "Dolby trouble." Also, remember the Dolby fault can be quite high and still work reliably. It can also be quite low and still revert. Louis  |  IP: Logged Daryl C. W. O'Shea Film God Posts: 3977 From: Midland Ontario Canada (where Panavision & IMAX lenses come from) Registered: Jun 2002 posted 10-30-2007 12:34 PM                        Not a dig at you Kyle, but I love it how everything requires a microprocessor these days. The other day I saw a pair of ice skates with heated blades that required a microprocessor to control them. It's insane. You should be able to build something around a shift register and a timer to count the number of reversions (and alarm when too many reversions occur) in a certain time interval.  |  IP: Logged Markus Lemm Expert Film Handler Posts: 113 From: Ottawa, Ontario, Canada Registered: Nov 2005 posted 10-30-2007 01:41 PM                        Thanks for all the advice. When I build something and get it working I'll share my results here.  |  IP: Logged

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