my profile | my password | search | faq & rules | forum home

» Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE   » Operations   » Film Handlers' Forum   » Dolby EX...why did we bother? (Page 2)

This topic comprises 3 pages: 1  2  3

Author Topic: Dolby EX...why did we bother? Blaine Young Master Film Handler Posts: 477 From: Kirkland, WA, USA Registered: Sep 2006 posted 05-20-2008 12:43 PM                     I can verify that Speed Racer is not in DD-EX or DTS-ES. As for the Star Wars: Clone Wars trailer, the Trailer DTS Serial Number is 6265, so it isn't in DTS-ES. I didn't check the display on the CP650 when the SW trailer was running, so I couldn't say for certain if it was or was not in DD-EX. Now just because the DTS isn't in ES doesn't mean that the Dolby Digital isn't EX. While most EX prints have an ES soundtrack too (Any of the Pixar Films, or "Hitman" from last year), we've had a couple of titles come through with DD-EX tracks that had only standard DTS tracks ("Miss Pettigrew Lives for a Day" being the most recent).  |  IP: Logged Lyle Romer Phenomenal Film Handler Posts: 1400 From: Davie, FL, USA Registered: May 2002 posted 05-20-2008 12:56 PM                     I think that it didn't take off because it isn't that noticeable to a customer (especially in a theater that had a well designed surround array before). I'm surprised that they don't do more mixes in EX simply because it is backwards compatible. It's not like SDDS-8 channel where a separate 5.1 channel mix had to be created. I think the one of the biggest pieces of stupidity is that the DCI specs were not designed for a discrete "EX" channel with mixdown capability. To do discrete EX with digital cinema there would have to be two mixes created (one with rear and one without). Then you'd have to utilize 3 of the unassigned tracks for discrete LS, BS, RS and ignore the normal LSt and RSt which would be compatible with matrix EX decoding.  |  IP: Logged Jesse Skeen Phenomenal Film Handler Posts: 1517 From: Sacramento, CA Registered: Aug 2000 posted 05-20-2008 01:46 PM                     I've NEVER seen a theater advertise that they have EX- I worked at a theater that got it in 2 auditoriums when Phantom Menace came out, but it wasn't advertised or promoted at all, except a few times when I did the phone recording I mentioned it there. I couldn't tell you if any other theaters in the area have it or not. It doesn't make much difference in small theaters anyways, it might be more effective in large ones where you don't have to sit near the back to see the screen at a decent angle. I don't know how people set it up at home, my living room is small and has the couch right against the wall. I have the left and right surround speakers mounted on the wall on either side of the couch facing inward- I don't know where I'd put the extra speakers if I added an EX system, but I can usually tell when movies are mixed for EX.  |  IP: Logged Bruce McGee Phenomenal Film Handler Posts: 1776 From: Asheville, NC USA... Nowhere in Particular. Registered: Aug 1999 posted 05-20-2008 06:36 PM                     I remember HAPPY FEET having an EX printed on the soundtrack format listing. Only have one Dolby EX house, and notice that alot of trailers will wake up the EX modules.  |  IP: Logged Marco Giustini Film God Posts: 2713 From: Reading, UK Registered: Nov 2007 posted 05-20-2008 06:54 PM                     Blaine If the soundtrack is made with Back surround, the soundtrack will be EX/ES compatible no matter if you use Dolby or DTS equipment. DTS uses 5 digit serial number to identify its ES prints (so DTS-ES recognize it). Since serial numbers are usually the same around the world I can identify 99% if the print is EX/ES by its DTS disks. Dolby put a flag in the print instead, that force the 650 to EX. In my country I saw so many times EX movie without the EX flag or EX movie with EX flag only in some reels (the processor wil turn to normal DD for that reel). I always check DTS disks. If there are 5 digits (the first zero is not a digit) it's ES/EX. SpeedRacer has 4 digit serial. Marco  |  IP: Logged John Wilson Film God Posts: 5438 From: Sydney, Australia. Registered: Dec 1999 posted 05-20-2008 07:30 PM                     quote: Blaine Young "Miss Pettigrew Lives for a Day" being the most recent). Yeah, Miss Pettigrew really needed EX, not like that talk-fest 'Iron Man'.  |  IP: Logged Martin McCaffery Film God Posts: 2481 From: Montgomery, AL Registered: Jun 99 posted 05-20-2008 08:10 PM                        quote: John Wilson Yeah, Miss Pettigrew really needed EX, not like that talk-fest 'Iron Man'. Oh good. we open with it Friday. I'm sure the little old broads will just be all a chatter about the EX  |  IP: Logged Cameron Glendinning Jedi Master Film Handler Posts: 845 From: West Ryde, Sydney, NSW Australia Registered: Dec 2005 posted 05-20-2008 08:54 PM                     so that you can run "Edge of Heaven" as the director intended  |  IP: Logged John Wilson Film God Posts: 5438 From: Sydney, Australia. Registered: Dec 1999 posted 05-20-2008 08:56 PM                     Another one that really needed it.  |  IP: Logged Bobby Henderson "Ask me about Trajan." Posts: 10973 From: Lawton, OK, USA Registered: Apr 2001 posted 05-21-2008 01:13 AM                     The whole "EX" thing is one area where home theater definitely trumped the audio tracks being played in commercial movie theaters. More movies have been released on DVD with Dolby Surround EX 5.1 tracks than have been released in commercial theaters. Some were mixed for straight 5.1 in theatrical release and then remixed for EX for the DVD release. Lots of catalog movies have been remixed for EX. DTS had its Discrete 6.1 channel ES format playing exclusively in home theater. I share the opinion of others that the commercial movie theater audio mix is now functioning as a first draft -put together in a rush for the theatrical release before being refined further into a better quality track for home theater. That's pretty unfortunate. Despite the release of the DTS-XD10 processor years ago, all that extra capability has gone largely unused. Where's the 8 channel or 10 channel DTS movies? If I'm not mistaken, digital cinema also has the upward capability of playing 8 or more channels of high quality digital audio. AFAIK, digital cinema files are being delivered with no more than 5.1 channels of audio. Meanwhile, the Blu-ray format is now delivering discrete 7.1 channel audio in Dolby TrueHD, DTS-HD and LPCM formats. And it has four discrete surround channels. It can also support the previous 6.1 and EX 5.1 formats -although most high definition fans are demanding lossless or uncompressed audio. Basically, very few people give a shit about Dolby EX in movie theaters anymore. It was never properly marketed and advertised to the public. With digital cinema, there is no more audio branding taking place. It's LPCM 5.1. But even that isn't advertised despite it being an improvement over the three previous lossy compressed digital audio formats.  |  IP: Logged Andres Briano Expert Film Handler Posts: 162 From: Buenos Aires, Argentina Registered: Jan 2008 posted 05-21-2008 03:00 PM                        Back in late 99, the company I work for opened a 16plex. House #1 (the smallest house together with house #14) was designated as the "art-house" of the complex. At that time they had us install SA-10 in all those auditoriums... including the art-house!!! Even though then, EX was the latest , we knew back then that putting one in house #1 was a bit extreme. In retrospective we were right.  |  IP: Logged John Walsh Film God Posts: 2490 From: Connecticut, USA, Earth, Milky Way Registered: Oct 1999 posted 05-21-2008 04:30 PM                     A person (in a position to know) told me that EX was just a marketing ploy to squeeze a few more dollars out of the analog 2:4 decoders. But, that would be OK if it was actually used.  |  IP: Logged Scott Jentsch Phenomenal Film Handler Posts: 1061 From: New Berlin, WI, USA Registered: Apr 2003 posted 05-23-2008 03:25 PM                        According to the IMDb, the following currently playing, coming soon, and recently played movies have EX/ES tracks: The Happening The Strangers Doomsday The Water Horse Ratatouille The Mutant Chronicles Hitman I did some poking around for Blu-ray specs of recent movies to see if any were being produced with more channels than their theatrical release: Rambo (PCM 7.1 and Dolby Digital EX) The Eye (PCM 7.1 and Dolby Digital EX) Semi-Pro (DTS HD MA 7.1 and Dolby Digital EX) Witless Protection (DTS HD MA 7.1 and Dolby Digital EX) The Golden Compass (DTS HD MA 7.1) Strangely, The Water Horse came out on Blu-ray in 5.1 so maybe it's just not marked correctly, the IMDb is wrong, or Sony's mastering house got lazy. Both Dolby and DTS have disowned their "Movies released in..." lists, so there's no way to know without further digging, which I'll leave to the interested observer. While The BigScreen Cinema Guide has the ability to display all the various digital sound formats, we're lucky if most theaters even indicate digital sound at all, much less make a distinction between them. I don't think they could be bothered to actually indicate EX/ES even if they had a movie with it. Maybe that's just me being pessimistic, but the amount of apathy over the formats displayed by theaters makes a lack of concern by the studios completely understandable. Home theater enthusiasts, on the other hand, eat this stuff up. Chasing the advanced technologies like a hungry dog after a newly found rabbit, they'll often gladly upgrade their equipment in the hopes of squeezing the last drop of quality between DTS and DTS HD MA. They demand lossless soundtracks from the studios, and disc reviews always mention the lack thereof. With so little concern in/by movie theaters, is it any surprise that home theaters have the better mixes? Certainly, the extra time between theatrical and home video release allows for more attention to be paid to such things, I don't think the studios would go through the effort if the paying public wasn't demanding it. To bring this out of the Afterlife realm and back in the Film Handler's realm, how many theaters will show The Strangers and The Happening in EX/ES and publicize it as such? If you do, and if The BigScreen Cinema Guide lists your showtimes, I will personally make sure that the proper designations are placed on your showtimes (assuming you provide the proper indications when you submit your times, of course).  |  IP: Logged John Wilson Film God Posts: 5438 From: Sydney, Australia. Registered: Dec 1999 posted 05-23-2008 09:12 PM                     Not sure about the others, but Waterhorse was definitely EX, as were Ratatouille and Hitman.  |  IP: Logged Blaine Young Master Film Handler Posts: 477 From: Kirkland, WA, USA Registered: Sep 2006 posted 05-23-2008 10:09 PM                     Doomsday was EX/ES. I expect "The Happening" to be as well (seems M. Night Shyamalan likes EX/ES - All his films beginning with "Unbreakable" have been encoded as such). All of Pixar films are EX/ES encoded, beginning with "Finding Nimo".  |  IP: Logged

All times are Central (GMT -6:00)

This topic comprises 3 pages: 1  2  3

Printer-friendly view of this topic

Hop To: Select a Forum: Category: Operations -------------------- Digital Cinema Forum Film Handlers' Forum Large Format Forum Ground Level Feature Info, Trailer Attachments & REAL Credit Offsets Category: Community -------------------- Film-Yak Film Handlers' Movie Reviews The Afterlife Bob Maar's Joke-A-Thon Category: Classified -------------------- Equipment and Supplies Wanted/For Sale Help Wanted/Seeking Employment Category: System -------------------- Software Beta Testing Forum

The Film-Tech Forums are designed for various members related to the cinema industry to express their opinions, viewpoints and testimonials on various products, services and events based upon speculation, personal knowledge and factual information through use, therefore all views represented here allow no liability upon the publishers of this web site and the owners of said views assume no liability for any ill will resulting from these postings. The posts made here are for educational as well as entertainment purposes and as such anyone viewing this portion of the website must accept these views as statements of the author of that opinion and agrees to release the authors from any and all liability.