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Author Topic: Can I double up on The Alpha Platter System? Brad Miller Administrator Posts: 17775 From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall) Registered: May 99 posted 06-13-2008 12:55 AM                     Better than a straw is to simply wrap a piece of tape around the top 1/2 inch of the payout arm. I've never had a problem stacking prints on a Christie, but still if you're worried...the tape trick is quicker, easier and a little more foolproof than hoping a straw stays put.  |  IP: Logged Jack Ondracek Film God Posts: 2348 From: Port Orchard, WA, USA Registered: Oct 2002 posted 06-13-2008 01:43 AM                        Got 3 Alphas here at my drive-in. Been loading doubles for 22 years out here. I use phase control arms... no thrown prints and no timing problems. I have one platter ring... Brad could have done everyone a favor and come out with that thing 20 years ago. We use it on really large loads, when stickapoos just don't inspire confidence. Indiana Jones and Narnia/Prince Caspian take us to about 1/4 inch from the platter ring!  |  IP: Logged Joe Redifer You need a beating today Posts: 12859 From: Denver, Colorado Registered: May 99 posted 06-13-2008 02:19 AM                        Since they were so poorly designed, Strongs come standard with the bracket on the top of the payout fingers so the film slipping out of the payout from the top print isn't an issue unless you've modified your Strong brains like I have so that the bracket is on the bottom thus making them thread like normal, sane brains instead of the mess that Strong or Potts or whoever originally designed. And Brad's tape method is just fine on the modified payout. By the way, why do people buy Strong platters? Why?  |  IP: Logged Brad Miller Administrator Posts: 17775 From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall) Registered: May 99 posted 06-13-2008 03:29 AM                     Because the platters are CHEAP! Cheaper is always better Joe. There is never an exception to that rule. Not even with prostitutes!  |  IP: Logged Monte L Fullmer Film God Posts: 8367 From: Nampa, Idaho, USA Registered: Nov 2004 posted 06-13-2008 04:30 AM                     Cheap yes, but sadly, yet they are actually reliable, dependable, trustworthy, and simple to operate ...(dummy proof is the main goal for many locations)..as long as proper maintence is involved. - no fancy electronics, no electromechanical adjustments to be had, parts can be had at a local level (due to AMTEK/LAMB vacuum motor usage, parts are easily available via Grainger for pennies compared to dollars that STRONG charges..and vacuum repair stores) and quite user friendly. - just can't do the tricks that an AW3 can do. So I guess there's a tradeoff on what a person wants. All the 26 A/AP3 decks that I have to take care of, only real big thing is microswitch changeouts on the brains and motor brushes to keep everyone happy. Also, I really haven't had one major problem with any of these STRONG platters to where it was down completely. Yes, I duely love the AW3 for the quality this unit has to offer in a highly professional booth, but unfortunately, our little company opted for STRONG for "dummyproof" operations .. .and I have to make the best do.  |  IP: Logged Joe Redifer You need a beating today Posts: 12859 From: Denver, Colorado Registered: May 99 posted 06-13-2008 04:36 AM                        Dummyproof? I don't think so! The Strong platter will trap dummies and make them destroy your prints! First of all, let's look at the retarded brain design. I don't have any pictures right now to post, so you'll have to use your imagination. Anyway, it takes actual thought to keep the film from wrapping around the wrong side of those stupid little rollers all around the brain. This will cause a brainwrap. Such a brainwrap may not be caught until over 30 minutes or more into the film due to these rollers spinning. I have also seen people thread so it comes out of the cluster rollers and then around one of the outside rollers which scratches the entire film. A dummy would not understand that the variac controls the payout speed. A dummy would not realize how much brute force those vacuum cleaner motors want to exert and how they literally CRUSH film once it gets to the top of its travel. And let's not forget that stupid pin on the variac. I've seen people thread under that thing. Definitely not dummy proof. I don't think anyone buys them because they are "dummy proof". They buy them because they are cheap and as far as they are concerned, a platter is a platter.  |  IP: Logged Monte L Fullmer Film God Posts: 8367 From: Nampa, Idaho, USA Registered: Nov 2004 posted 06-13-2008 04:55 AM                     Won't argue there - why they also need wrap detectors on the top of the tower - so when they do lace up the brain and get the film inbetween those outside rollers, at least it'll shut down the systems. And I'm just a guilty as the other, for I've caught myself managing to get a loop of film around one of the rollers when lacing a brain. I just have to tell myself to take the leader end and pull the leader in the same direction as of the filmroll to meet the control opening - not going backwards to meet the control arm opening where most of the time is when I'll loop the film around a roller. Course, it all comes done to (and we've thrown this dead dog around till it can't die anymore and that is) "proper training." - and why of my comments in my previous post in supporting these platters since I'm also overseeing all of the training involved. You might say, I'm doing my best to eliminate the "dummies." I'm sure that Brad does the exact same thing when he sets up those 'platter farms' at those "Movie Grill" places he's put together -"proper training" "No Fubaring Allowed."  |  IP: Logged Joe Redifer You need a beating today Posts: 12859 From: Denver, Colorado Registered: May 99 posted 06-13-2008 06:16 AM                        In my experience it has always been easier to train someone with zero booth experience than those who have learned previously. There are rare exceptions, but generally this is the case. Most people learn things the old-fashioned way where most concepts and beliefs are just dead wrong. Most are unwilling or unable to "unlearn". Again, there are exceptions. quote: Monte L Fullmer I've caught myself managing to get a loop of film around one of the rollers when lacing a brain. I just have to tell myself to take the leader end and pull the leader in the same direction as of the filmroll to meet the control opening - not going backwards to meet the control arm opening where most of the time is when I'll loop the film around a roller. What if you could just drop the leader in from the top, like a Christie? No need to drag anything anywhere. On my Strongs, you can. They still suck, though.  |  IP: Logged Jack Ondracek Film God Posts: 2348 From: Port Orchard, WA, USA Registered: Oct 2002 posted 06-13-2008 12:36 PM                        quote: Joe Redifer On my Strongs, you can. They still suck, though. So, Joe... just for the sake of giving you another poke... Given a smaller operation, where I don't interlock, how would my booth run better, my film be cleaner or "more undamaged", or my customers be better served if I bought more expensive platters that "don't suck"? I sometimes get the feeling that once some of you guys get spoiled from working in environments where money comes from a bigger pipeline, you have much less patience with anything below your "A-list".  |  IP: Logged Brad Miller Administrator Posts: 17775 From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall) Registered: May 99 posted 06-13-2008 03:11 PM                     Well, I can try and take a stab at that one. If you never interlocked (maybe a single, twin or 3 screen), then no the platter wouldn't be quite as critical if you are extra careful with it and go through much extra trouble when working with it. However when you purchase a quality platter like a Christie, what you are getting is reliability, quality and a good design. Every Strong/Potts platter I have worked with just downright sucks. I have seen more film damage happen on those because their designs are not well thought out, whether it be simple design flaws like not having keepers on all of their rollers, to that all-too-short takeup elevator that if it crashes will pull rollers out of alignment causing roller scratches on the film if not caught by the operator. Also bear in mind those have ZERO backtension from the brains, so film cleaning is simply not as effective as if you had a Christie platter. That's not to say that you can't clean a film, just that it will take much longer to get the end result same effect. Also many of the design flaws outlined here forces the operator to be that much more careful, and working with them is generally a pain in the butt. Finally let's not forget the Strong/Potts type of platters don't care about your film print and if it gets damaged during breakdown, because there is no backtension! If you don't build a breakdown clutch like this then you ARE damaging your films upon shipout. This is a commonly argued point because so many people out there don't understand how it works because "I don't see it". Well that may be the case, but loose winds DO cause cinch scratching and people with more light on their screen WILL see the scratches. Hell, their center rings are so flimsy I see prints get cinch scratched just moving the films between auditoriums! Sorry, but these platters just downright fucking suck. Can they put on a good show? Absolutely...but only IF the operator jumps through extra hoops to make sure that happens and makes various modifications to them. With the price difference being less than $1000 between one of these shitty platters and a Christie I have to ask myself, what are these morons in purchasing thinking? You get what you pay for, and if the studios actually charged for film damage, these platters would quickly be seen as some of the most expensive platters out there to operate. Now if money is super, super tight and a platter just HAS to be cinched on, then the SPECO LP-270 is the platter people should be buying. The price I believe is on par with the Strong/Potts variety and they are FAR better designed and SIGNIFICANTLY more reliable, as well as better at handling film.  |  IP: Logged Jack Ondracek Film God Posts: 2348 From: Port Orchard, WA, USA Registered: Oct 2002 posted 06-13-2008 05:03 PM                        OK... I asked for an intelligent answer... looks like I got one! No, I don't interlock... don't see that I ever will here. Yes, I've built your clutch. I also understand, and have seen the problems with the takeup elevator. That's not a problem, if you know when and why it can occur. Slow start/stop machines have less trouble with this. Lack of tension on the film cleaner: Yes, I've noticed that. For theatres that don't use the cleaners, does that equal a "suckage point" for some practical reason? I understand the weaknesses in the platter. I don't like the vacuum cleaner motor, but it just doesn't seem that big a deal to me. Nor is jumping through the hoops, for a small operation. I've seen a platter "fan" up the film below it... another quirk that's not that hard to work around, really. The end of the film going through the center and dumping film below it... again, an easy workaround. Just put the brain in before you take off the ring. My rings are all original. None are bent or warped. Granted, they're not as sturdy as the old ORC ones were. But treated with the respect you would any other equipment in your booth, that's not much of a problem, either. I raised 4 daughters. The platter is a piece of cake. If I had anyone in my booth, besides my daughter and me, if there was any chance I'd be interlocking or if I had a platter farm, then it would probably be a different story. Thanks for the perspective though. Guess I'm more neutral, as far as this goes.  |  IP: Logged Joe Redifer You need a beating today Posts: 12859 From: Denver, Colorado Registered: May 99 posted 06-13-2008 05:05 PM                        If you're not using cleaners, then the theater as a whole has pretty much reached the "suckage point".  |  IP: Logged Jack Ondracek Film God Posts: 2348 From: Port Orchard, WA, USA Registered: Oct 2002 posted 06-13-2008 05:11 PM                        You must have said that with the same look as your picture.  |  IP: Logged Joe Redifer You need a beating today Posts: 12859 From: Denver, Colorado Registered: May 99 posted 06-13-2008 05:12 PM                        Uhhh, sure. But I can say it with any facial expression you want. The meaning will be the same.  |  IP: Logged Brad Miller Administrator Posts: 17775 From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall) Registered: May 99 posted 06-13-2008 05:31 PM                     quote: Jack Ondracek Guess I'm more neutral, as far as this goes. It's more like you have a controlled environment with only 2 operators that know all of the downfalls of running one of those platters, so it is something the two of you have learned to deal with. In a normal environment, those platters spell disaster.  |  IP: Logged

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