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Author Topic: Info on Automation System?? Richard Hamilton Phenomenal Film Handler Posts: 1341 From: Evansville, Indiana Registered: Jan 2000 posted 06-23-2008 08:10 PM                     Sean, Based on what I see, you are not controlling lights or sound (except exciter) in this unit. You should just need 1 cue at the end of the film to kill the sound and shut the douser before it tails out. It could be as simple as the start button starts the motor and fires the lamp, then when the first frame hits, you either have a cue, or you hit the "Show Start" button to open the douser and turn on the exciter. Then an ending cue, or you manually hit the "Show Stop" button to shut the douser and kill the exciter. Hi-Tech did some custom boxes based on different needs. This could be one, or it could just be one of their first basic models. Just looks custom because there are no manual switches on it. Rick  |  IP: Logged Joe Redifer You need a beating today Posts: 12859 From: Denver, Colorado Registered: May 99 posted 06-23-2008 08:54 PM                        It still looks far more advanced than the Christie AM3 Basic automation that is in 2 of my auditoriums. For some reason when you press stop, the sound doesn't switch to non-sync until at least 8 seconds have passed. Incredibly stupid.  |  IP: Logged Steve Guttag We forgot the crackers Gromit!!! Posts: 12814 From: Annapolis, MD Registered: Dec 1999 posted 06-23-2008 09:38 PM                     Well Joe...the AM-3 was designed in a day when exciter lamps were used to turn the sound on and off (for film)...as such, when you press STOP...the exciter relay drops out but since you have red-readers (and they are apparantly hooked such that they are on)...the sound keeps going. One shouldn't judge a piece of equipment designed in a different era based on today's needs. It is more of an indication of how one's needs have changed and perhaps a more suitable automation should be installed. Steve  |  IP: Logged Kenneth Wuepper Phenomenal Film Handler Posts: 1026 From: Saginaw, MI, USA Registered: Feb 2002 posted 06-23-2008 10:17 PM                     Sean, Thanks for the closeup photos of your controller. It appears that the input section of the system runs on low voltage supplied by the small transformer in the lower left of the circuit board. The House Light Relay is missing entirely from this board. Since there are no wires connected to that set of terminals, we might conclude that they were not ever used. The douser relay is controlled through a resistance capacitor time circuit. This makes that relay only operate for a second so as not to burn out the changeover coils. If the unit is totally inoperative, check the fuse located beside the transformer. It may be burned open or there may be a circuit defect causing the fuse to blow. What are your plans for operating this projection equipment? With the house lights not operated by this controller, you would not be able to remotely start the show nor would you want to without someone there to check that everything is properly operating and the picture is in focus. KEN  |  IP: Logged Joe Redifer You need a beating today Posts: 12859 From: Denver, Colorado Registered: May 99 posted 06-23-2008 11:29 PM                        quote: Steve Guttag perhaps a more suitable automation should be installed. Why on Earth would we do that? We like having 4 CNA-100's and two AM3's. We love double-cuing each print. We love having the worst, least capable automation in our large giant screen auditorium. Anyway they had the chance to install a better automation, but for some bizarre reason they chose to install the AM3... only about 3 months ago or so (before I started there).  |  IP: Logged Mike Blakesley Film God Posts: 12767 From: Forsyth, Montana Registered: Jun 99 posted 06-24-2008 12:19 AM                        quote: Joe Redifer For some reason when you press stop, the sound doesn't switch to non-sync until at least 8 seconds have passed. Incredibly stupid. Yeah, we used to have an AM-5 automation that did that too. I guess it had something to do with the cam, but it was still stupid.  |  IP: Logged Jack Ondracek Film God Posts: 2348 From: Port Orchard, WA, USA Registered: Oct 2002 posted 06-24-2008 03:54 AM                        Criticizing how people use automation, and for what reason, is pointless. Your reasons and criteriae are probably not mine. If the system in question has a failsafe, that (for many) is good enough, and more than some have.  |  IP: Logged Joe Redifer You need a beating today Posts: 12859 From: Denver, Colorado Registered: May 99 posted 06-24-2008 05:16 AM                        I hope you're not talking to me, Jack. We have lots of Bollywood movies with intermissions that require us to stop the projector and run our ass off over to the sound processor to press Non-Sync so they don't have to listen to the movie sound slow down. There's no way we can be fast enough so they always hear just a bit of slow down no matter what. Whether other theaters have failsafes or not is of no concern to me. If that is good enough for some, then perhaps they are in the wrong business altogether. There is no reason an automation like this should be used in this day and age with modern equipment (ie: reverse scan LEDs) and modern audiences who expect us to give them a better show than they can get at home.  |  IP: Logged Louis Bornwasser Film God Posts: 4441 From: prospect ky usa Registered: Mar 2005 posted 06-24-2008 06:13 AM                        Joe: AM-3. jumper the motor "out" wire to "exciter in" and power the red led power supply from "exciter out". It will then "act" like an exciter lamp. As regards non sync (I assume a processor) I usually add 2 110v relays across the changeover to switch from non-sync to digital or SR. Yes, you still get the 8 second delay, but film sound cuts off clean. Alternatively, use the "stop" light to hold a non sync relay closed. Louis  |  IP: Logged Steve Guttag We forgot the crackers Gromit!!! Posts: 12814 From: Annapolis, MD Registered: Dec 1999 posted 06-24-2008 06:14 AM                     Joe, your techs could always wire your LEDs to turn on/off as the exciter lamp did...this would solve the run-down problem. You could also slug your films too with such products as "Black Hole" from JacRoe (endorsed by Brad Miller, no less) so they won't hear the run down. Steve  |  IP: Logged Joe Redifer You need a beating today Posts: 12859 From: Denver, Colorado Registered: May 99 posted 06-24-2008 06:29 AM                        I'm only at the theater 2-3 days a week, and I haven't had any time to look at the automation yet. I was just thinking of wiring the CHANGEOVER CLOSE to NON SYNC and calling it a day, but again I've had no time to look at it. For some reason this automation also shuts off the slide projector whenever the motor switch is on. Probably a similar workaround was applied there for some other reason, but the other AM-3 we have doesn't do this. Yes, I want some full coat mag or whatever. Scratch that. I NEED some. However I think it might be hard for me to obtain unless I buy it myself.  |  IP: Logged Scott Norwood Film God Posts: 8146 From: Boston, MA. USA (1774.21 miles northeast of Dallas) Registered: Jun 99 posted 06-24-2008 07:45 AM                        I hate hate hate automations that are configured to switch the processor between non-sync and film sound. The music should fade in and out, not abruptly switch on or off. (This assumes a CD player that simply repeats all day, rather than something manually controlled.) What I would want in a multiplex is something like this: motor start engages mute (with fade time set to a few seconds) on the processor, then the processor switches to 05 (or whatever format is appropriate) at a reduced "trailer level" when the changeover opens. At feature start, I'd want a sound cue that switches to digital (if available and if film has digital track) and increases the fader setting (or toggles local/remote fader). At the end of the show, I'd want mute to be engaged at changeover close, and then format 60 to be selected when the failsafe drops. Why is this not the standard configuration? Would anyone running a show manually just hit a format button without fading out the music first?  |  IP: Logged Steve Guttag We forgot the crackers Gromit!!! Posts: 12814 From: Annapolis, MD Registered: Dec 1999 posted 06-24-2008 09:25 AM                     Scott...the majority of theatres will indeed just press the other format and kill the music instantly. Or in typical Christie Console theatres (they love to ground negative)...you get to hear the "zap" over the sound first as the lights fade...and then the abrupt switch from music to film. The Panastereo CSP1200 always cross-faded the music to film and vice-versa (with two different fade rates programmable). Naturally with more sophisticated automations, one can do more elaborate crossfades and fader control. The Panalogic CA2000 and the Christie/Pennywise/Kinoton CA21/EMK-1 can program in different fader levels at different points in the program (and I'm sure others can as well). However...the more sophisticated an automation the more you need an operator that knows how to take advantage of the features. One problem I've seen with automations like the CA2000 is that they can press play/start and stop and such...but changing a program is just beyond them. Fortunately, it can store 10 programs (the CA21 can hold 6). By and large what I see in most computerized automated theatres are two programs...one for Flat and one for Scope...generally set up by the installer or the company person that is in charge of such stuff. One neat thing about the CA2000 is that if you adjust the volume during the show...it will ask you if you want the new volume to be a permanent setting...if you select okay...then next show it will return to that volume in that part of the programming. If you like to code...the CA2000 is the best. That is...it allows you to make a program comprised of subroutines. Thus you could create the crossfade you like from non-sync to film...complete with what formats you want to involve...volume levels...timing...you name it. Then store that as a subroutine that can be called on any program. Steve [ 06-24-2008, 08:58 PM: Message edited by: Steve Guttag ]  |  IP: Logged Jack Ondracek Film God Posts: 2348 From: Port Orchard, WA, USA Registered: Oct 2002 posted 06-24-2008 10:24 PM                        quote: Scott Norwood What I would want in a multiplex is something like this: motor start engages mute (with fade time set to a few seconds) on the processor, then the processor switches to 05 (or whatever format is appropriate) at a reduced "trailer level" when the changeover opens. Speaking of which... does anyone know why the CP65 has such a short fade? All 3 of mine drop in about half a second or less... not that I use that feature anymore. Old caps?  |  IP: Logged Louis Bornwasser Film God Posts: 4441 From: prospect ky usa Registered: Mar 2005 posted 06-25-2008 06:02 AM                        The cp-65 is a MUTE. It is not a fader. Later, on some cp-500's the mute was converted to a fader by slowing it down. Louis  |  IP: Logged

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