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Author Topic: Mirror Projection Gordon McLeod Film God Posts: 9532 From: Toronto Ontario Canada Registered: Jun 99 posted 06-23-2008 08:23 PM                     I beleive BACP was the first with a track system for 2 machines  |  IP: Logged Jim Cassedy Phenomenal Film Handler Posts: 1661 From: San Francisco, CA Registered: Dec 2006 posted 06-24-2008 05:41 PM                     During WWII, most large cities had a theater operated by a company called TELENEWS. These places ran nothing but newsreels 24/7. Most of these theaters were small venues, some them were actualy built into vacant stores, and to maximize space they used rear projection in most of them. I've seen photos of two TELENEWS booths. One of them showed two projectors facing each other and shooting into a mirror device solidly mounted on a projector pedestal between them. The other TELENEWS booth photo I've seen showed 2 projectors with intetrated "right-angle-lenses", simlilar to the ones Bell & Howell used to sell for 16mm projectors. In the late 1970's I recall working several UA change-over booths out on Long Island, NY that had a periscope arrangement like someone else mentioned here to shoot projection beam over the heads of the audience. Most of these 'submarine booths' had a window at eye-evel so you could see the cue marks, but I recall one place that becuase of the way it was designed, you had to look up into a mirror mounted at a 45deg angle above your head to and watch an upside down and backwards screen image to see the cue marks! That was a real mind-f..k!  |  IP: Logged Richard Fowler Film God Posts: 2392 From: Ft. Lauderdale, FL, USA Registered: Jun 2001 posted 06-24-2008 07:21 PM                     I was doing track systems way before those guys, some motorized with limit switches and locating pins I had done some mirror jobs which where at the mercy of the operating staff...best to avoid  |  IP: Logged Michael Dolan Film Handler Posts: 77 From: Deerfield Beach, fl. Registered: May 2008 posted 06-29-2008 02:35 PM                        It seems now they are going to put in 2 digitals keeping only 1 of them doubled up with a 35mm. I believe we have also whined enough for them to put it on a track system. So hopefully we have burried the mirror idea 6ft. under I guess only time will tell  |  IP: Logged Ken McFall Jedi Master Film Handler Posts: 615 From: Haringey, London. Registered: Apr 2001 posted 06-29-2008 03:55 PM                     London's West End still has a four screen cinema, Odeon Panton Street, that uses periscope projection in all screens. The observation port being at low level in respect to the projection mirror. The pictures are very small with long relative throws so the image is not too bad. Considering the importance of Leicester Square and the public perception of quality linked with ticket price it is amazing that it is still around today. I know the booth quite well and to say it is a dump is putting it mildly. The equipment is a disgrace, with many many long standing faults, and the working conditions are very poor. But front of house there is a bit sign declaring ODEON "Fanatical about film".... should add to that "but not about the projection equipment or working conditions" £9.50 to pay to see sub standard projection in the heart of the West End is a joke. I agree with John... "only really crappy theatres would use mirrors"  |  IP: Logged Ben Wales Jedi Master Film Handler Posts: 602 From: Southampton. England Registered: Jul 99 posted 06-29-2008 04:14 PM                     quote: Ken McFall I know the booth quite well and to say it is a dump is putting it mildly. The equipment is a disgrace, with many many long standing faults, and the working conditions are very poor. That Cinema was once a former ABC Cinema, you are getting confused with the main Odeon Cinema's in the Square as at this site programming is a mixture of Art House and extended weeks (2nd)run from other Odeon sites. Perhaps you should write to the Odeon Technical Depatment with your views about this Cinema Projection equipment?, or just wait for a few years as Odeon have announced at last week's Cinema Expo in Amsterdam that they are going all D-Cinema within the next few years.  |  IP: Logged Ken McFall Jedi Master Film Handler Posts: 615 From: Haringey, London. Registered: Apr 2001 posted 06-29-2008 04:25 PM                     Ok Yes it was a former ABC, Cannon, MGM and originally built by Star. It runs a lot of main stream art house stuff but none the less is a West End cinema charging top prices. As for writing to the company.... if a major player in the game cannot see for itself the condition of one of it's prime sites what does that tell you. Knowing what I do I certainly would not go and see a film there or indeed any periscope projection show. Clapham Picture house included. These shows charge top rate for poor quality.... which is what this post is all about. Avoid mirror projection at all costs. While I remember, The Odeon Kensington used to. may still have, have two screens that used right angle mirror projection. The projectors were Vic 8's adapted so the film was laced soundtrack in. The screens were un-perforated with the speakers below the bottom picture line. It was quite strange initially but you got used to lacing 'wrong' way round. Picture quality was quite good but that may have been a compensating effect of the un-perforated screens.  |  IP: Logged Scott Norwood Film God Posts: 8146 From: Boston, MA. USA (1774.21 miles northeast of Dallas) Registered: Jun 99 posted 06-29-2008 05:47 PM                        There's a theatre in Washington DC (Dupont Circle?) that uses periscopes. The auditoria themselves are smaller than most living rooms and it isn't exactly a top-quality venue. I'm sure that Steve G. knows the details of this place and could post additional information if he chooses. The Brattle Theatre in Cambridge, MA. uses a rear projection system like the newsreel houses described above. The 35mm projectors face each other and there is a pair of 45-degree front-surface mirrors between them to reflect the image through the (huge) port glass and onto the screen. Masking is manual and is located in front of the screen surface. Image quality is "OK," but not great. It improved significantly when the old screen was replaced in the early 2000s with a newer seam-less (in theory, anyway) screen.  |  IP: Logged Alan Plester Expert Film Handler Posts: 209 From: great yarmouth england Registered: Apr 2001 posted 06-30-2008 05:09 AM                     My cinema had one large booth and used the periscope system for the screen upstairs. When the mirrors got warm the picture was horrible and needed constant framing and focus. The mirror was float glass and was changed within 4 years result, just the same horrid presentation, always out of focus and like a head choppers ball. Please if you can AVOID at all costs.  |  IP: Logged Robert Throop Master Film Handler Posts: 412 From: Vernon, NY USA Registered: Jun 99 posted 06-30-2008 08:17 AM                     In the late sixties and early seventies there was a development program known as Ultravision. Among other things they had two projectors toed in and shooting in to a mirror box they called an optiverter. This converted each projector to centerline projection. Bob  |  IP: Logged Steve Guttag We forgot the crackers Gromit!!! Posts: 12814 From: Annapolis, MD Registered: Dec 1999 posted 06-30-2008 10:48 AM                     Scott, The Dupont in Washington DC has finally shut down. Yes, it did use periscopes on most screens. The reasons were due to lack of booth space (couldn't build platforms that would be OSHA safe) and the need to project over hallways. As others have said, periscopes should be one's last resort. One must use 1st surface mirrors of the highest quality (and they are not cheap). Otherwise, you are going to have issues with multiple images that often show themselves as soft or smeared images. It CAN be done, however. As to the Dupont...due to the space issues, the walls were built rather thin on the projection room. The pariscopes were affixed to the booth walls (and floor). As such, when the booth door closed (or if anyone leaned/banged on a hallway wall), the image would move rather violently in the theatre. Oh yes, this theatre had a lot of "charm." Altec A8Cs were used because they "fit." That is, the theatre had wrap-around screens that stood about 18" off the wall...the A8s just barely fit behind there. I truely detested the Dupont 5. Steve  |  IP: Logged Martin McCaffery Film God Posts: 2481 From: Montgomery, AL Registered: Jun 99 posted 06-30-2008 11:06 AM                        quote: Scott Norwood There's a theatre in Washington DC (Dupont Circle?) that uses periscopes. As Steve pointed out, it was the Dupont 5, not the gone but not forgotten original Dupont Circle theatre. As I think I mentioned in other strings, right up the street from the old Dupont, the Janus 3, now closed, had a mirror system to get around the pillar in the middle of the auditorium. Also, the Cerberus 3, also gone, in Georgetown, had a mirror system that projected down -- you could not see the screen from the booth, you had to focus in the mirror. Neither of these theatres were known for fine projection. The Town theatre on NY Ave had a periscope system because it was on the 3rd floor and the booth was too far back in the balcony to clear the edge and hit the screen. I don't know if DC was particularly fond of mirror systems, or if it is just the "make-do" attitude when putting theatres into spaces designed for something else.  |  IP: Logged David Graham Rose Expert Film Handler Posts: 187 From: Cambridge, UK Registered: Sep 2002 posted 06-30-2008 11:30 AM                     Quote " While I remember, The Odeon Kensington used to. may still have, have two screens that used right angle mirror projection. The projectors were Vic 8's adapted so the film was laced soundtrack in. The screens were un-perforated with the speakers below the bottom picture line. It was quite strange initially but you got used to lacing 'wrong' way round. Picture quality was quite good but that may have been a compensating effect of the un-perforated screens. " Greetings They were Vic 9's not 8's. David  |  IP: Logged Ken McFall Jedi Master Film Handler Posts: 615 From: Haringey, London. Registered: Apr 2001 posted 06-30-2008 12:18 PM                     Quite correct.... good to see you're paying attention.  |  IP: Logged Benjamin John Doman Film Handler Posts: 35 From: Slough, Berkshire, England Registered: Jun 2007 posted 07-01-2008 01:04 AM                     Hi, If I remember correctly, the old ODEON Aylesbury screens 2&3 not only had mirrors, but were rear projection. The box was in the old front stalls, with the projectors pointing to (if you imagine) the front stalls exit doors on to a mirror which bounced the picture back onto the screen. Screen 1 in the old circle was unusual in that the screen was suspended with no wall to block off the front half of the cinema, and you could look over the circle front and see the old front stalls.  |  IP: Logged

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