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Author Topic: Black emulsion scratches and filmguard? Pete Naples Phenomenal Film Handler Posts: 1565 From: Dunfermline, Scotland Registered: Feb 2001 posted 12-07-2008 12:01 PM                     That makes 3!  |  IP: Logged Craig Mueller Film Handler Posts: 22 From: Aptos, CA, USA Registered: Aug 2008 posted 12-07-2008 02:53 PM                     Unfortunately the person that scratched the film is my boss (I am the theatre manager, he is the operating manager of our three theatres), and he has 30 years on me in the industry, so instructing him on how to do things different is a bit tough sometimes.. He normally has it right but he had to reframe due to a stupid modification of mine gone awry, and the loop became too big. Like others, I use the number/diamond trick every threading (thanks Matt), but he does not. I have not treated the print with Film Guard, I am waiting for the weekend to end so that small crowd shows get to see the streaks for the first or second show, also historically this projector becomes jumpy, even at the highest tension with filmguard so I may have to move in the trap. [ 12-07-2008, 04:57 PM: Message edited by: Craig Mueller ]  |  IP: Logged Monte L Fullmer Film God Posts: 8367 From: Nampa, Idaho, USA Registered: Nov 2004 posted 12-07-2008 06:40 PM                     quote: Craig Mueller also historically this projector becomes jumpy, even at the highest tension with filmguard so I may have to move in the trap. ..is this a flat trap Simplex, or a curved gate variety? sounds like bands, or rails needs to be replaced. Also, if this is the curved gate variety, wonder if the stop allen that adjusts the gate closure is somewhat out of adjustment. To check - close the gate after threading and see if the intermittent shoes move towards and upwards to the front of the machine. If so, then the gate is closing too tightly for the shoes should just snug against the film over the sprocket without any movement when the gate is closed. Opposite is if you see a gap between shoes and the film when gate is closed and the gate isn't closing tight enough over the bands. (Funny how the argument of finger spacing is only a sprockethole difference with our fingersizes. When you teach booth clowns the easiest method how to do loop sizes, this is the only way they remember along with we don't have countdown leaders.) little tips.. quote: Craig Mueller He normally has it right but he had to reframe due to a stupid modification of mine gone awry, and the loop became too big. NOW, here's an interesting question: If this guy has 30yrs on you and didn't shut down the machine when the bottom loop got too big, let alone an oversized loop would rattle like the dickens, I wonder where he spent his 30 yrs at - let alone on how many prints that he scratched himself? -Monte  |  IP: Logged Joe Redifer You need a beating today Posts: 12859 From: Denver, Colorado Registered: May 99 posted 12-07-2008 06:50 PM                        quote: Gordon McLeod The best way is sound diamond across the scaning beam and Pix start in the gate that was the way it was designed I've seen projectors that were designed so that this was impossible without the loop being ridiculously small or big, usually because of the addition of a basement Dolby Digital reader. I've also read (in Kodak documents, I think) that the bigger the auditorium, the smaller your lower loop should be, and the smaller the auditorium, the bigger the loop. Anyway, I teach everyone the frameline method because it is easy to remember. On the Simplex, make the bottom sprocket have a frameline on 10:00 (usually PM but sometimes AM) and the lower constant feed at 11:00 (always PM). Upper loop should be no higher than the screw in the back (not the one that sticks up) at its smallest position. This loop needs to be two perfs bigger on the machines without the turrets. Craig, what was this modification of yours and why did it affect framing?  |  IP: Logged John Hawkinson Film God Posts: 2273 From: Cambridge, MA, USA Registered: Feb 2002 posted 12-07-2008 11:49 PM                     Joe, if the loop is "ridiculously" big with PICTURE START in the gate and SOUND START on the analog sound, then something is terribly wrong. Yes, it is true that very small or very large houses may have to offset by some amount. But that's true no matter what method you use. The beauty of this method is twofold: #1 it is correct, by definition, #2 it works on every single projector. --jhawk  |  IP: Logged Craig Mueller Film Handler Posts: 22 From: Aptos, CA, USA Registered: Aug 2008 posted 12-08-2008 02:55 AM                     The modification didn't affect framing, I just threw that in for disclosure. The modification was two metal strips to act as spacers behind the aperture plate to bring it closer to the film, and sharpen the edges on screen. One of the bands had slipped (still in "beta" this dumb little project), and was visible on screen when he started the show, he didn't know what to do, and lost his framing by opening the gate trying to rectify the situation and the film was past the leader at that point. I should have instructed him on what to do if it did slip, but it hadn't happened more than once before.. It was a silly thing to leave in a projector when other people than me would be touching it. I don't know why he wasn't able to determine that it was not scratching, but it happened. And I really hope he doesn't go on this site, because I feel like I have aired too much about a good guy..  |  IP: Logged Stephen Furley Film God Posts: 3059 From: Coulsdon, Croydon, England Registered: May 2002 posted 12-08-2008 05:34 AM                     On machines with combined analogue/digital basement readers is the analogue track read directly in the normal position, or is it read ahead and then delayed digitally to bring it into sync? If it is read ahead then it can't be by much.  |  IP: Logged John Hawkinson Film God Posts: 2273 From: Cambridge, MA, USA Registered: Feb 2002 posted 12-08-2008 07:50 AM                     The normal position. No one wants to deal with delaying analog audio if they can avoid it... (Of course, someone will probably cite some counterexample now, like those analog penthouses with digital delay for the folks who need by white light and red led capabilities, or some special custom situation with a basement reader...) --jhawk  |  IP: Logged Joe Redifer You need a beating today Posts: 12859 From: Denver, Colorado Registered: May 99 posted 12-08-2008 10:22 AM                        Not on the Christie, at least not on the earlier ones. No audio was delayed. I think the analog reader was the bottom one. Anyway, the way I thread (which may be a whole perf small), the audio is in perfect sync when listened to in the auditorium. That's what matters. Hand claps or things slamming down on tables are perfect sync tests.  |  IP: Logged Monte L Fullmer Film God Posts: 8367 From: Nampa, Idaho, USA Registered: Nov 2004 posted 12-08-2008 01:26 PM                     quote: Craig Mueller And I really hope he doesn't go on this site, because I feel like I have aired too much about a good guy.. Very true, for it can easilly come back and bite you pretty bad posting info in here about fellow workers. A good suggestion is that the next time you have a booth problem and you know you're in the clear about the problem, either solve it without posting on here, or make it look like it's not your theatre where you're talking about someone that you know who's running a booth and have this problem along with variating the s story to still get the question across, but changing some things around to make it look like it's not your workplace. You must have a theatre that is using unmasked screens and you have to shimmy the aperture plate forward to make the flat pictures have sharper edges. This is the big problem with using standard aperture plates in a curve gate Simplex 35 (P1014 single lens?) since the plate line is so far back from the bands. I once knew of a cinema that has this exact same problem - horrible blurry edges when running flat on a 2.35/1 unmasked floating screen and that flat image looks horrible let alone numerous complaints from customers on why the screen isn't filled all the way along with the blurry edges...and the owner just scoffs at these complaints due to he didn't want to fuss with adding masking due to his untrust with his help with "complicated" things as motorized maskings.  |  IP: Logged System Notices Forum Watchdog / Soup Nazi Posts: 215 Registered: Apr 2004 posted 03-07-2012 08:52 AM                 It has been 1184 days since the last post.  |  IP: Logged Bob Ezra Film Handler Posts: 75 From: Carbondale, CO, USA Registered: Apr 2001 posted 03-07-2012 08:52 AM                     Joe Redifer said ("No they're not! I've seen black base-side scratches unaffected by Filmguard. The person who scratched the print decided that the lower roller was unnecessary and went straight from the failsafes to the first take-up roller on the platter, rubbing the shaft that holds the lower roller. Of course this guy threads so the soundtrack faces toward the wall so we were presented with many very deep base scratches that could not be affected by anything.") My question, did it help in that case, some or not at all? thanks  |  IP: Logged Brent Francis Film Handler Posts: 84 From: Toronto Ontario Canada Registered: Nov 2008 posted 03-07-2012 09:44 AM                        Regarding the finger/loop schitck - I once had a projector that constantly went out of rack after it started, even if you manually advanced it two/three frames before to make sure it was staying in the gate. Then you had to adjust the rack - and got too big or too small a loop somewhere. And no-one seemed to know how to fix it.  |  IP: Logged Victor Liorentas Jedi Master Film Handler Posts: 800 From: london ontario canada Registered: May 2009 posted 03-07-2012 10:53 AM                     Having put Film Guard on many scratched prints.By manually applying it thicker than normal and doing it at least twice to spread it around more evenly. The results on screen are. Light base scratches are almost impossible to see! Heavy base scratches are reduced by about 60%! Light emulsion scratches turn white and are less obtrusive. Heavy emulsion scratches are permanent. After a few weeks or months you must reapply because the Film Guard will evaporate and thin out bringing the scratching back into view. I have run a heavily Film Guarded print through a Kelmar cleaner and found it thins out the Film Guard instantly which is fine for light scratching but heavy scratches are suddenly more visible. This is why I suggest applying it by hand with clean soft cotton material to get it on heavier. I still need to try over soaking media pads to see if that will get it on thick enough. This is only for scratched prints and otherwise not a great idea because it's a lot of WORK and you need to keep reapplying it to maintain the look. That said. It can make these prints look fantastic for a while!  |  IP: Logged Joe Redifer You need a beating today Posts: 12859 From: Denver, Colorado Registered: May 99 posted 03-07-2012 01:07 PM                        quote: Bob Ezra My question, did it help in that case, some or not at all? Not at all that I could notice.  |  IP: Logged

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