Film-Tech Cinema Systems
Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE


  
my profile | my password | search | faq & rules | forum home
  next oldest topic   next newest topic
» Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE   » Operations   » Film Handlers' Forum   » Best short throw anamophic and flat lens for sSuperSimplex? (Page 2)

 
This topic comprises 3 pages: 1  2  3 
 
Author Topic: Best short throw anamophic and flat lens for sSuperSimplex?
Steve Guttag
We forgot the crackers Gromit!!!

Posts: 12814
From: Annapolis, MD
Registered: Dec 1999


 - posted 12-20-2008 09:42 PM      Profile for Steve Guttag   Email Steve Guttag   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Depending on the focal length, one won't be able to use a Blue-Star as the barrel is too wide given how the Super is constructed. You might find yourself needing to use a compact anamorphic, like the Schneider ES anamorphic...again, it is all up to the focal length of the lens.

Steve

 |  IP: Logged

Steve Beverly
Film Handler

Posts: 83
From: El Paso, Tx.,
Registered: Nov 2007


 - posted 12-21-2008 12:35 AM      Profile for Steve Beverly   Email Steve Beverly   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Well according to my International Cinema Equipment Lens Selector & Picture Size Computer, with a 25 ft wide screen at 20 ft I'd need a 16mm anamorphic to project a 2:35 image, up to a 40mm for projection at a 50 ft throw. 35 ft would be a 25mm. I believe that a 25 ft screen would probably be the best size, given my limited space, to use for focus and grading checks. [Cool]

 |  IP: Logged

Steve Guttag
We forgot the crackers Gromit!!!

Posts: 12814
From: Annapolis, MD
Registered: Dec 1999


 - posted 12-21-2008 01:14 AM      Profile for Steve Guttag   Email Steve Guttag   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
You can stop right now...you'll never get the image out of the lens and if you could, you'll never get it out of the projector.

Most anamorphics can't handle less than 50mm...though, depending on throw, one might be able to get a 47.5 or even a 45mm to work...normally not though. ISCO did make three very special versions of the Blue-Star integrated anamorphic....the shortest being 42mm. You won't find it very easily and would pay top dollar to have it made new (it has always been special order)...it also will likely vignette in a Super Simplex.

Steve

[ 12-21-2008, 09:01 AM: Message edited by: Steve Guttag ]

 |  IP: Logged

Louis Bornwasser
Film God

Posts: 4441
From: prospect ky usa
Registered: Mar 2005


 - posted 12-21-2008 07:25 AM      Profile for Louis Bornwasser   Author's Homepage   Email Louis Bornwasser   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
You couldn't open the gate with the lens in, either. Louis

 |  IP: Logged

Mark Gulbrandsen
Resident Trollmaster

Posts: 16657
From: Music City
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 12-21-2008 05:35 PM      Profile for Mark Gulbrandsen   Email Mark Gulbrandsen   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Tony, Go back and re-read my post again... I stated that you MUST have a 5/16" diameter star shaft to use positrols... The "pinned" sprocket only fits on the old type1/4" star shafts.

Gord,
A Super is every bit as good as an E-7 in the verticle realm unless there is something wrong with the Super....

Mark

[ 12-22-2008, 07:50 AM: Message edited by: Mark Gulbrandsen ]

 |  IP: Logged

Louis Bornwasser
Film God

Posts: 4441
From: prospect ky usa
Registered: Mar 2005


 - posted 12-21-2008 08:51 PM      Profile for Louis Bornwasser   Author's Homepage   Email Louis Bornwasser   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Mark: using the Super as a reference, most projectors today are not as good. Kinoton, Simplex XL, and Century can be made to be better especially if gate is curved. The rest? Louis

 |  IP: Logged

Monte L Fullmer
Film God

Posts: 8367
From: Nampa, Idaho, USA
Registered: Nov 2004


 - posted 12-21-2008 10:10 PM      Profile for Monte L Fullmer   Email Monte L Fullmer   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
quote: Louis Bornwasser
...most projectors today are not as good...
So, what happened? Who got lazy in their designs to make things sub-par?

I was impressed this summer on a service all with a theatre that had a pair of Supers sitting on RCA-9300's .. the picture - steady as a rock with no jumping and weaving.....Then, I come home to 1050's, run a RP-40 loop, go down to the screen and there is noticable weave and jump in the checkerboard test on the film.....so discouraging..

 |  IP: Logged

Austin Pelnar
Film Handler

Posts: 10
From: Tallahassee FL
Registered: Dec 2008


 - posted 12-21-2008 10:43 PM      Profile for Austin Pelnar   Email Austin Pelnar   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I was just having this very discussion the other day. For a time I hated to mention I was working with anold super but after following up on a lead on a soundhead I ended up in a lengthy conversation about how stable the supers were but unfortunatly they cut off the parts supply. Fortunatly when I bought my super it included a nice stock of parts including a handful of the elusive pinned sprockets. Mine did have some modifications maybe someone can shed some light on. The starwheel shaft has been modified to accept a BB47/416TL31B and the trap door looks to be from an E-7.
I did test a 22mm ultra MC in mine it wont vigenette if you remove the focus knob, the exra support ring and push the guide rods as far back as you can, it is still possible to open the trap.

 |  IP: Logged

John Hawkinson
Film God

Posts: 2273
From: Cambridge, MA, USA
Registered: Feb 2002


 - posted 12-22-2008 01:05 AM      Profile for John Hawkinson   Email John Hawkinson   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
w/r/t Steve B.'s problem, is the solution not to use a transposing extender or a wide-angle converter (aka "zoom converter"; e.g 0.7x magnacom)? Or do those lose you more than you would gain?

--jhawk

 |  IP: Logged

Steve Guttag
We forgot the crackers Gromit!!!

Posts: 12814
From: Annapolis, MD
Registered: Dec 1999


 - posted 12-22-2008 02:03 AM      Profile for Steve Guttag   Email Steve Guttag   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
The question was with respect to an anamorphic...you aren't going to get the image out of it without vignetting at that EF. The special Blue stars, also not quite short enough will need to be sunk into the the projector (forget about the front lens mount or stop ring) to get the image in focus...and then you will likely vignette coming out of the projector.

For 1.85, one has more options.

Steve

Steve

 |  IP: Logged

Steve Beverly
Film Handler

Posts: 83
From: El Paso, Tx.,
Registered: Nov 2007


 - posted 12-22-2008 02:19 AM      Profile for Steve Beverly   Email Steve Beverly   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
quote: Steve Guttag
You can stop right now...you'll never get the image out of the lens and if you could, you'll never get it out of the projector.

Most anamorphics can't handle less than 50mm...though, depending on throw, one might be able to get a 47.5 or even a 45mm to work...normally not though. ISCO did make three very special versions of the Blue-Star integrated anamorphic....the shortest being 42mm. You won't find it very easily and would pay top dollar to have it made new (it has always been special order)...it also will likely vignette in a Super Simplex.

Steve

Well, in that case, I may end up having to use a smaller screen. The computer says at a 50 ft throw, using a 50mm 'scope lens, the image size would be just under 18 ft. If I could pull back to 56 ft. I could get a 20 ft. wide image and in order to get my magic 25 ft wide image, I'd need to set the projector back at 70 ft. One Hell of a throw for a portable dallies projector. I'm currently looking for a warehouse to buy to put my studio in along with my processing lab and editing suites. It mat be possible to get close to that kind of throw in a 40 x 60 building which is about what I'm looking at. Maybe I could put a booth up on the roof of the editing suites with a screen at the other end and the sound system fixed on the walls which I figure should be fine if I build them at normal room height say 8 to 10 feet on a 20 ft to 25 ft tall building. I'm also like to put theater seating and casters on a pair of risers I have so we could do possibly do some test screenings. My current building, which I rent, is 100 x 50 but is only 10 ft tall so it doesn't work all that well as a studio, though we have shot some stuff there. It also has a VERY bad roof and leaks like a sieve. I plan on making getting into a new building a priority this coming year. [Cool]

 |  IP: Logged

Mark Gulbrandsen
Resident Trollmaster

Posts: 16657
From: Music City
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 12-22-2008 07:50 AM      Profile for Mark Gulbrandsen   Email Mark Gulbrandsen   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Tony, Go back and re-read my post again... I stated that you MUST have a 5/16" diameter star shaft to use positrols... The "pinned" sprocket only fits on the old type1/4" star shafts.

Ford, A Super is every bit as good as an E-7 unless there is something wrong with the Super....

Mark

 |  IP: Logged

Steve Guttag
We forgot the crackers Gromit!!!

Posts: 12814
From: Annapolis, MD
Registered: Dec 1999


 - posted 12-22-2008 08:46 AM      Profile for Steve Guttag   Email Steve Guttag   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Steve go to Schneider's web site and download their Theatre Design Pro (there may be a version here too).

That will help you see just what point of acceptable throw vs. screen size occurs.

I think you are mis-reading your lens selector...a 25' wide picture at 20-feet needs about a 33mm prime lens. Doing the math:

((2x.825)/25) x 20 x 25.4 = 33.5mm. You didn't multiply the width of the aperture by 2 in order to allow for the 2x anamorphic. So, using 50mm as the bare minimum of a known workable, non-special order lens with a 25' wide screen.

Rework the equation so that it looks like (50x25)/(25.4x2x.825) you get you required throw to be 29.83' or about 29'-10"...probably something you can do. It will still suck putting a 50mm integrated anamorphic in the Super (it will be way back in the machine and you won't be able to use a stop ring) but it will likely work.

Steve

 |  IP: Logged

John Hawkinson
Film God

Posts: 2273
From: Cambridge, MA, USA
Registered: Feb 2002


 - posted 12-22-2008 12:54 PM      Profile for John Hawkinson   Email John Hawkinson   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I guess I'm getting kind of off-topic, but I was curious about these transposing extenders.

quote: schneideroptik.de

This lens attachment transposes the exit pupil of the lens toward the front thanks to its additional glass distance without having even the slightest negative effect on the imaging. It is used with lenses which have a short focal length and which are needed with a very large screen with only a short projection dis-tance. The Extension avoids partial vignetting of the wide image which can e.g. be caused by parts of the projector which extend into the beam path, parts of other lenses in the same lens revolver or by too nar-row a window.

?

--jhawk

 |  IP: Logged

Jim Cassedy
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1661
From: San Francisco, CA
Registered: Dec 2006


 - posted 12-23-2008 11:46 AM      Profile for Jim Cassedy   Email Jim Cassedy   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I got this scope lens from a cinema equipment dealer here in San Francisco
that I use on my Simplex XL at a short throw of abt 25-30ft & it works great.
 -

Last year I loaned it to a well known San Francisco theater that used it for several months after their scope lens was damaged.

The throw there was just over 100ft, and they claimed the picture looked better than their regular scope lens.
The theater even offered to buy it from me. I refused to sell.

I don't have an optical bench or a lens resolution test film (Do they they still make those things? - haven't seen one in years!)so I don't have a quantative way of measuring or comparing it to other lenses.

The lens is marked: H. Chretien Hypergonar, HI-FI-2, Societe Technique Optique De Precision

Distances from "7 - 50" are scribed on the adjustment collar. I'm going to assume these distances are in meters since the lens was made in france. There is also an "infinity' setting.

Labels on the box it came in when I bought it indicate it was originally sold to the "UA Arden-Fair" in Sacramento, CA.

This lens works so well for me, that I recently found and bought a 2nd one.

 |  IP: Logged



All times are Central (GMT -6:00)
This topic comprises 3 pages: 1  2  3 
 
   Close Topic    Move Topic    Delete Topic    next oldest topic   next newest topic
 - Printer-friendly view of this topic
Hop To:



Powered by Infopop Corporation
UBB.classicTM 6.3.1.2

The Film-Tech Forums are designed for various members related to the cinema industry to express their opinions, viewpoints and testimonials on various products, services and events based upon speculation, personal knowledge and factual information through use, therefore all views represented here allow no liability upon the publishers of this web site and the owners of said views assume no liability for any ill will resulting from these postings. The posts made here are for educational as well as entertainment purposes and as such anyone viewing this portion of the website must accept these views as statements of the author of that opinion and agrees to release the authors from any and all liability.

© 1999-2020 Film-Tech Cinema Systems, LLC. All rights reserved.