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Author Topic: Dolby Surround EX still in use? Brian Guckian Jedi Master Film Handler Posts: 594 From: Dublin, Ireland Registered: Apr 2003 posted 03-13-2010 02:16 PM                     quote: Daniel Schulz Dolby Surround EX (or in its DTS Digital Sound equivalent, DTS-ES) is still in use, though it's not favored by most mixers. It'd be interesting to know why that is. Perhaps they want to avoid having to matrix encode the surround channels when they do the (discrete) 6-track mag?  |  IP: Logged Steve Guttag We forgot the crackers Gromit!!! Posts: 12814 From: Annapolis, MD Registered: Dec 1999 posted 03-13-2010 03:02 PM                     Discrete 6-track mag? And the last one of those mixes was? As for the CP500 with EX...the only "required" update was to go to 1.52 or later (I think it was 1.52...it might have been 1.51). What it did was echo the front panel pushbuttons to the Automation connector so the SA-TEN would "see" which button was pushed. There are "EX" version of the firmware for 1.61 (STAY FAR, FAR AWAY) and 1.65. The only real difference between the EX versions is that the surround channel EQs are disabled. Manually flattening them will work just as well. So, rather than not using the EX processors on the few EX movies, just update the silly CP500! Version 1.65 (or 1.65EX) are stable and will not remove functionality from whatever version you may have. I think they are even available here on Film-Tech. Steve  |  IP: Logged Daniel Schulz Master Film Handler Posts: 387 From: Los Angeles, CA USA Registered: Sep 2003 posted 03-13-2010 11:57 PM                        My understanding of the resistance on a lot of stages is essentially: "keep your analog matrix out of my discrete digital mixing room." The introduction of the matrixed rear surround channel introduces possible artifacts, with sounds the mixer intends to stay panned to the LS or RS bleeding into the rear surround. The addition of a truly discrete 6.1 on DVD with DTS-ES only muddied the waters; while you nominally would like to create a truly 6.1 discrete mix for the home video version (if the content would be served by having a rear surround channel), you still need the analog matrix for the theatrical EX printmastering. I'll echo what other posters have already said, that a really elegant solution would be a convergence between the Blu-Ray and Digital Cinema soundtrack layouts, using 4 discrete surrounds channels: LS, LB, RB, RS.  |  IP: Logged Brian Guckian Jedi Master Film Handler Posts: 594 From: Dublin, Ireland Registered: Apr 2003 posted 03-15-2010 05:56 PM                     Daniel - thanks for the information. Steve - just to clarify, I was referring to archival back-up (35mm fullcoat mag). The argument put forward being that for any additional channels to gain lasting acceptance in the mixing field, one would like to back them up discrete to mag. That was my impression, anyway.  |  IP: Logged Bobby Henderson "Ask me about Trajan." Posts: 10973 From: Lawton, OK, USA Registered: Apr 2001 posted 03-15-2010 06:14 PM                     quote: Daniel Schulz I'll echo what other posters have already said, that a really elegant solution would be a convergence between the Blu-Ray and Digital Cinema soundtrack layouts, using 4 discrete surrounds channels: LS, LB, RB, RS. DTS' latest theatrical sound processors could, with certain upgrades elsewhere in the sound system, support 4 discrete channels in the surround array, 5 channels behind the screen and even bring back stereo ".2" sub bass functions. Unfortunately a movie studio has to support such an audio layout by creating movies with such multi-channel mixes. The movie studio and at least a few movie theater companies have to work together to get the new sound format deployed. It doesn't seem like many people at all are interested in making such an effort.  |  IP: Logged Eric Robinson Jedi Master Film Handler Posts: 538 From: Santa Rosa, CA Registered: Jan 2005 posted 03-16-2010 01:01 AM                     Honestly, how many of your customers have walked out at the end of their show and commented about how much they liked the EX? I'm sure almost none of them know the difference.  |  IP: Logged Danial Simmonds Expert Film Handler Posts: 107 From: Kota Damansara, Selangor, Malaysia Registered: Jan 2008 posted 03-16-2010 06:09 AM                        Well customers wont know we are playing EX unless we play the trailer before the film and put up enough planks to tell them this hall has Dolby EX... So far i noticed Alice in Wonderland has Dolby EX. other movies currently playing here are all runing Dolby Digital.  |  IP: Logged Steve Guttag We forgot the crackers Gromit!!! Posts: 12814 From: Annapolis, MD Registered: Dec 1999 posted 03-16-2010 07:53 AM                     I am unaware that full-coat mag is being used as much of anything anymore by the studios. They seem content to store digitally and keep it that way. Does anyone know, for sure, that full-coat is being used for achival storage? Steve  |  IP: Logged Scott Norwood Film God Posts: 8146 From: Boston, MA. USA (1774.21 miles northeast of Dallas) Registered: Jun 99 posted 03-16-2010 08:38 AM                        I did a mag interlock screening in 2004 (admittedly, this was for an independent film), so it was being used at least as of then. The sound was a three-track temp mix with Dolby SR on all tracks. Of course, mag is used for films that are edited on film, but very few people are still doing this now. Even then, I would assume that the sound post work is done digitally.  |  IP: Logged Paul Gordon Jedi Master Film Handler Posts: 580 From: Ottawa, Ontario, Canada Registered: Aug 2005 posted 03-16-2010 09:28 AM                        Archives still use mag, mostly to make dubs to poly mag from 16mm mag or 35mm fullcoat that is starting to decay.  |  IP: Logged Brian Guckian Jedi Master Film Handler Posts: 594 From: Dublin, Ireland Registered: Apr 2003 posted 03-16-2010 11:21 AM                     I'm sure that someone told me last year that studio final mixes are still being ultimately backed up onto 35mm mag for archiving purposes. Sure, mixing nowadays is all-digital and the final mix will be stored on drives etc. as an interim measure, but my understanding was that for longterm storage, mag is still the preferred medium. However things move so fast these days that even relatively recent information can be out of date!  |  IP: Logged Daniel Schulz Master Film Handler Posts: 387 From: Los Angeles, CA USA Registered: Sep 2003 posted 03-16-2010 06:30 PM                        Long term digital archive is an interesting problem. It's been pointed out in various industry groups that it doesn't make sense for the final archive of a 48/24 or 96/24 digital mix to be analog mag. But, when you start digging into what the digital archive should be you run into issues such as: what file format? What database software? And the biggest question of all, what media? Or do you accept that all of these things will change over time, and have a department devoted to migrating the archive into the latest digital storage media every 2 years? Staring at these problems, many organizations throw up their hands and sign off on the PO to continue outputting the printmaster to mag for the vaults for another year.  |  IP: Logged Bill Gabel Film God Posts: 3873 From: Technicolor / Postworks NY, USA Registered: Jan 2002 posted 03-16-2010 07:22 PM                     The last Track and Picture screenings that I did was "There Will Be Blood" in 2007 (6-Track mag). The first 5 or 6 press screenings of "There Will Be Blood", in NYC were T&P shows. Deluxe NYC does not even have a mag dubber in the booth.  |  IP: Logged Joe Redifer You need a beating today Posts: 12859 From: Denver, Colorado Registered: May 99 posted 03-16-2010 08:04 PM                        Daniel, at least the files can be moved without any loss of quality.  |  IP: Logged Scott Jentsch Phenomenal Film Handler Posts: 1061 From: New Berlin, WI, USA Registered: Apr 2003 posted 03-17-2010 12:29 PM                        quote: Eric Robinson Honestly, how many of your customers have walked out at the end of their show and commented about how much they liked the EX? I'm sure almost none of them know the difference. How many customers will notice that other fine points in your theater have been taken care of? If they don't notice that a light bulb is out in the hallway, don't replace it. If they don't notice that the popcorn was popped yesterday... IMHO, delivering the best possible presentation is the duty of every theater. If they want their customers to appreciate what they have done, they have to tell them about it and give them the information to appreciate what has been done for them. As a result, they will be more educated and will begin to notice and appreciate the extras, even when not told about them. Now, when they go to a theater down the road that doesn't have those extras, they'll have a good reason to come back to yours the next time. If the studios aren't producing enough "EX" soundtracks, perhaps it's time for theaters/NATO to push for it?  |  IP: Logged

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