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Author Topic: Film guard usage Demetris Thoupis Phenomenal Film Handler Posts: 1240 From: Aradippou, Larnaca, Cyprus Registered: Apr 2001 posted 01-10-2010 02:31 AM                     Brad in case of collecting film, does filmguard protect the film in storage for issues like vinegar effect, colour fading e.t.c? Does it do any good on nitrate film? (of course its bette nitrate to be avoided). Demetris  |  IP: Logged Brad Miller Administrator Posts: 17775 From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall) Registered: May 99 posted 01-10-2010 03:00 AM                     I have never used it on nitrate film, but have been told it does wonders and puts the possibility of it breaking at a much lower risk by those that have. Nothing will prevent or cure vinegar syndrome, but I can attest it does slow it down and extends the useful life of VS prints. Nothing will slow down color fading except for the usual cold storage, etc.  |  IP: Logged Steve Guttag We forgot the crackers Gromit!!! Posts: 12814 From: Annapolis, MD Registered: Dec 1999 posted 01-10-2010 04:03 AM                     I could see a couple of advantages to breaking down the print and cleaning on the rewinder (at first). One, the first pass on the platter will have a VERY streaky print...even with the 24-48 hour pre-soak. Two, it will allow them to get about a years worth of cleaning done in a single day. After that point, platter cleaning will just be a maintenance cleaning. Most of my venues use the Kelmar bench to rewind. However to set that up, you need a couple of brackets that you likely don't have. You need the Autowind bracket AND the film measuring machine bracket (both made by Kelmar). You then need to drill/tap holes to mount these two things together (at the proper spacing to align with the reels). There are pictures here on Film-Tech that show this set up (I believe if you search on "high speed film cleaning" you will find it. Steve  |  IP: Logged Randy Stankey Film God Posts: 6539 From: Erie, Pennsylvania Registered: Jun 99 posted 01-10-2010 09:31 AM                     Cleaning on the bench is not something I do every time. I only do it when the print is very dirty. While I am building up, if I see my glove getting dirtier than usual I might decide to give it an extra cleaning right there on the bench as I am working. (I always build onto 6,000 ft. reels.) I usually have to rewind the print before spinning it onto the platter. That is the time I get out my bracket and mount my film cleaner on the bench. I just take advantage of that rewinding operation to clean the film at the same time. Yes, if you clean the film at the bench and you let the film run too fast you will scratch the film! First, don't run the film too fast. If you are using the Kelmar bench, don't go above "30" on the speed dial. If you are using some other brand of equipment, don't go faster than 25% or 30% of maximum. Second, remember that as the film winds along it will go faster. Assume you are winding a roll of film from the left spindle to the right. The full reel on the left has a large diameter and the empty one on the right has a small diameter. As the right side gets larger and the left gets smaller, the speed of the film going through the machine will increase. When you are about half way through the reel you should turn the speed down. I usually go down to 25% or 20%. Finally, you should be using new, clean media on your film machine and be sure it is well saturated with fresh Film-Guard. If you don't do this, any dirt that is already on the media will act like sandpaper and leave microscopic scratches through the whole print. If you use your film cleaner on the bench, just remember: You can easily do more harm than good! Be careful! BTW: Whose idea was it to store that print on the floor? (Or even NEAR the floor?) Basically, everybody who walks by that platter is kicking dust and dirt onto the print. I'd say that print needs a good cleaning, either at the bench of through the projector. Method isn't important. Getting the print clean is key. I think you should either break that print down onto 6,000 foot reels and store them in a film rack ABOVE FLOOR LEVEL or invest in a "Show Shipper." http://www.film-tech.com/warehouse/wareview.php?id=1054&category=4 If you play that movie every week or even on a regular basis you should treat it like gold! That film is money! You should do all you can to protect your assets.  |  IP: Logged Steve Guttag We forgot the crackers Gromit!!! Posts: 12814 From: Annapolis, MD Registered: Dec 1999 posted 01-10-2010 11:59 AM                     Randy, I don't know what to say...I've tested, pretty extensively, bench cleaning with Film Guard, dry, with different vintages of cleaners and with different media. I've tested Kelmar-WHITE and Film-Tech white (with brick pattern) using 4500 foot reels safely to 50% on a Kelmar RTV-8900 without any damage. You can see my set up below: High Speed Film Guarding Thread The older cleaners are more fussy as they move the media slower. Kelmar Green will definitely scratch you movie on older cleaners (you can get aways with it on the current cleaners) as it is abrasive. I, personally don't go above 30-40% on 4.5-6K reels or 50% on 2K reels as I don't see the need for speed in this situation and at best it will do an inferior job of cleaning/lubricating. I'm curious to see you set up if you are getting any hint of scratching. Also, what media are you using and the vintage of your cleaner. Steve  |  IP: Logged Randy Stankey Film God Posts: 6539 From: Erie, Pennsylvania Registered: Jun 99 posted 01-10-2010 12:20 PM                     I'd have to agree with your testing. I don't do bench cleaning unless I need to. I've never done any formal testing either. I simply work slowly and carefully, operating under the belief that it is better to take a few extra minutes to do the job correctly than to take shortcuts and risk damage. I've also got to admit that my "Don't go too fast or you will scratch film" mentality is born out of teaching college students to work in the booth. I find that, if you don't keep hammering on them, they will simply turn the control up to "100" without thinking. Bottom line: Yes, you can probably go faster but still be careful.  |  IP: Logged Brad Miller Administrator Posts: 17775 From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall) Registered: May 99 posted 01-10-2010 12:59 PM                     Guys, the main problem with bench cleaning is that the tension increases as the reel ends. It is not consistent throughout the reel like a platter. That (and going too fast) is where the biggest scratch potential comes. More tension is only better up to a point. For "high speed" cleaning my preference is always speed winding on the platter. Bench cleaning can be done if you know what you are doing, but Randy is right you COULD do more damage than good if you don't know what you are doing. With that said, Neumade makes a special bracket to mount the film cleaner to the side of a Neumade or a Kelmar table. It is ready to go out of the box and is better than the Kelmar parts bolted together because gravity doesn't pull the FilmGuard toward the back side of the cleaner. The "Show Shipper" platter reel isn't stiff enough to prevent your film from "bending" due to the Strong platters, so don't bother. Breaking down to 6000' reels is also a lot more stress on the film than just clamping it and moving it, so don't do that either.  |  IP: Logged

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